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View Full Version : More open mined than most, my thoughts on the debate...




JohnnyWrath
01-31-2008, 02:33 AM
OK, there are many here who are going to say Ron Paul wins everytime, I am not one of them....I want to give my thoughts as an open minded Ron Paul supporter and Republican/libertarian.

First off, I'll go right at it, and say Romney won this debate. He seemed intelligent, which he obviously is, and he also got crazy amounts of time to talk. The debate almost was about McCain and Romney as a focus, and McCain looked like an idiot.

Ron Paul....he did do well, and on certain answers got pretty good applause, and actually seemed to get the loudest applause of all several times from the somewhat muted crowd. I believe he is making a serious mistake by answering every single question no matter what the issue is by talking about foreign policy...it almost does seem obsessive and single minded. I understand that issues do tie together, but it is a SERIOUS mistake in my opinion to constantly answer every single question by relating the issue to the federal reserve printing money or foreign policy....it does seem weird. Ron Paul also talked too fast....ended sentences without finishing them, and seemed too excited and wired...not a Presidential appearance. He should remain calm, but be confident and collected....my opinion. All in all, he did get the best applauses of the night from the audience.

Huckabee didn't do much better...by begging for airtime, it actually hurt him I think...although he is well spoken, and usually the wittiest of the candidates, he drew attention to the fact he is no longer important by begging to be heard...understand? It drew attention to the fact he was being left out...I am glad Ron tries to avoid this as much as possible at the debates even though he gets screwed 50 times worse than Huckabee ever did....Ron must get quite angry at times, but almost begging to be heard just amplifies the fact you are being ignored because the hosts feel you are a waste of time. It comes across as pathetic kind of.

McCain, unless the people who watched this are completely stupid, looked really bad tonight...he basically got thrown into a match against Romney, and came across as looking like an idiot. He had trouble even talking because in my opinion he is trying to remember something someone else told him to say. He does not recognize that "Islamic extremist fascists" is sounding dumber and dumber each day. He also completely could not understand that the Romney quote he was using against Romney...actually backed up Romney and made him seem like a moron.....the audience reaction clearly showed during that section they knew Romney was right, and then the moderator even backed up Romney....McCain looked like a total idiot.

These are my opinions....I think McCain hurt himself, I think Romney did very very well, and I think Huck and Ron both did OK but were not given much chance at all.

Thanehand
01-31-2008, 02:44 AM
I agree with most points, but I did think Ron performed very well tonight. The fact of the matter is that these issues ARE tied together and people know this, or have the tendency to have a lightbulb click when they hear it repeatedly.

In regards to the other candidates, I just hope that I'm not the only American that realized you could cut the smugness with a knife. See screenshot of the debate I posted in this thread:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=106945

Edu
01-31-2008, 02:51 AM
Ron Paul won! He was on point! It's crazy government spending and trying to be the police of the world!

That's the ONLY POINT!

Debate over in 7 minutes! Done, no commercials. Short sweet and any idiot can understand.

JohnnyWrath
01-31-2008, 02:53 AM
The fact of the matter is that these issues ARE tied together and people know this, or have the tendency to have a lightbulb click when they hear it repeatedly.

It can come across like Tancredo blaming every American ill on immigration...in my opinion, it is the same people watching all these debates...you are either a debate watcher or you are not. Ron keeps answering every single question with the same answer....it is the federal reserve and foreign policies fault....true or not, it seemed too much for me tonight.

He has got to get new material, it's like watching the same debate over and over as far as he goes. He needs to throw in some positive talk as welll...without a doubt...quit being soooooooo negative because people don't want to hear always how bad we suck. we do of course, but people don't always want to hear it.

JoBurke
01-31-2008, 02:54 AM
First off, I'll go right at it, and say Romney won this debate.

isnt hard if you are given loads of time to talk BS - its all lies, you know it we know it....so I guess I am saying kiss it to your open mindedness

Really.

jbuttell
01-31-2008, 03:00 AM
very good points... Agree for the most part, though I feel really did quite well by pointing out the childish bickering going on...while perhaps not all it takes to win... It was the highlight of the debate if you ask me. To win of course, in the other candidates cases, you just keep a steady flow of bull streaming out of your mouth to rudely get as much face time as possible.

Molly1
01-31-2008, 03:00 AM
I believe he is making a serious mistake by answering every single question no matter what the issue is by talking about foreign policy..


Unfortunately, foreign policy is the sick heart of the problem. It is the very thing which will be our downfall. Everything else is ancillary to it.

And, as far as I'm concerned, the neocons know it and they approve of the outcome.

People like Mccain and Huckabee are just pawns in their hands.

Romney--I can't figure out what his point is--he can manage the killing of other people better?

Good grief--sick!

Craig_R
01-31-2008, 03:03 AM
OK, there are many here who are going to say Ron Paul wins everytime, I am not one of them....I want to give my thoughts as an open minded Ron Paul supporter and Republican/libertarian.

First off, I'll go right at it, and say Romney won this debate. He seemed intelligent, which he obviously is, and he also got crazy amounts of time to talk. The debate almost was about McCain and Romney as a focus, and McCain looked like an idiot.

Ron Paul....he did do well, and on certain answers got pretty good applause, and actually seemed to get the loudest applause of all several times from the somewhat muted crowd. I believe he is making a serious mistake by answering every single question no matter what the issue is by talking about foreign policy...it almost does seem obsessive and single minded. I understand that issues do tie together, but it is a SERIOUS mistake in my opinion to constantly answer every single question by relating the issue to the federal reserve printing money or foreign policy....it does seem weird. Ron Paul also talked too fast....ended sentences without finishing them, and seemed too excited and wired...not a Presidential appearance. He should remain calm, but be confident and collected....my opinion. All in all, he did get the best applauses of the night from the audience.

Huckabee didn't do much better...by begging for airtime, it actually hurt him I think...although he is well spoken, and usually the wittiest of the candidates, he drew attention to the fact he is no longer important by begging to be heard...understand? It drew attention to the fact he was being left out...I am glad Ron tries to avoid this as much as possible at the debates even though he gets screwed 50 times worse than Huckabee ever did....Ron must get quite angry at times, but almost begging to be heard just amplifies the fact you are being ignored because the hosts feel you are a waste of time. It comes across as pathetic kind of.

McCain, unless the people who watched this are completely stupid, looked really bad tonight...he basically got thrown into a match against Romney, and came across as looking like an idiot. He had trouble even talking because in my opinion he is trying to remember something someone else told him to say. He does not recognize that "Islamic extremist fascists" is sounding dumber and dumber each day. He also completely could not understand that the Romney quote he was using against Romney...actually backed up Romney and made him seem like a moron.....the audience reaction clearly showed during that section they knew Romney was right, and then the moderator even backed up Romney....McCain looked like a total idiot.

These are my opinions....I think McCain hurt himself, I think Romney did very very well, and I think Huck and Ron both did OK but were not given much chance at all.

I agree totally. After Dr. Paul stumbled through the first question and made no sense what so ever I felt my heart hit the bottom of my stomach. Of course I knew what he was trying so desperately to spit out but to someone who doesn't know the issues, who's never seen Paul speak, who only listens to what the TV tells them. right there that first question they wrote him off.

Listening to Romney I had to keep reminding myself he sucks

I sure wish Paul would've interrupted during the "conservative credentials" part that Anderson cut him off from answering and NEVER went back to as he promised to do

JohnnyWrath
01-31-2008, 03:04 AM
isnt hard if you are given loads of time to talk BS - its all lies, you know it we know it....so I guess I am saying kiss it to your open mindedness

Really.

Not 100% sure what you are saying here, but as far as "win" goes I mean...."actually made progress in winning over supporters and winning votes." My opinion from this debate was that Romney won because McCain looked like shit while Romney made sense. We may not agree with every candidate....people have different opinions on what should be done, but Romney came across as well spoken, intelligent, and not as robotic as he has in some debates....he won votes away from McCain tonight in my opinion, so I say he won.....it's just my opinion.

Yes, it does matter that he had TONS of time to talk and wasn't cut off every sentence, but that is out of our control for the most part. If not for our grassroots efforts, Ron Paul may not even be getting in these debates....they might be afraid to not put him in at least at this point...we have made progress, but no, we are not getting equal time at all. I almost sense Ron Paul knows he is going to get very little time, and probably be cut off, and that may be why he does talk too fast....I'm not in his head though, I don't know.

coffeewithchess
01-31-2008, 03:10 AM
Yea, RP lost 90% of America talking about the Federal Reserve again and his answer on pollution(?) being about property rights wasn't even a finished answer and it probably didn't make sense to people listening...luckily I've heard him answer that before so I KNEW what he was trying to say, but he didn't say it.

ToryNotion
01-31-2008, 03:11 AM
The biggest mistake Dr Paul made was not taking advantage of the format. This was not a timed debate. Romney took advantage of that and went on and on and on. When Dr Paul had the floor he should have said something like 'I will address that question but first I like to talk a bit about this primary season...' and then emphasis that only a small % of citizen have been able to vote (make every vote count) and that we shouldn't be focused on only a few candidates and that he hopes the moderators are scrupolous in making sure the american people get to hear each candidate as nearly as possibly even.....etc. Say it graciously and respectfully but take control from the start. There was no reason to not take as much time as was needed. I've heard comments that AC cut Dr Paul off. Maybe I wasn't watching close enough but I did not get that sense. I know AC is crooked as hell and I hate CNN.

Molly1
01-31-2008, 03:13 AM
Yea, RP lost 90% of America talking about the Federal Reserve again and his answer on pollution(?) being about property rights wasn't even a finished answer and it probably didn't make sense to people listening...luckily I've heard him answer that before so I KNEW what he was trying to say, but he didn't say it.

The people who are facing having their private property seized for a highway from Mexico to Canada understood what he was talking about---believe it!

Nothing like seeing someone in government who actually has respect for private property rights. It's rare these days.

You know who understands that? The Red states.

coffeewithchess
01-31-2008, 03:18 AM
The people who are facing having their private property seized for a highway from Mexico to Canada understood what he was talking about---believe it!

Nothing like seeing someone in government who actually has respect for private property rights. It's rare these days.

Yea, but he needed to say, "I'm not allowed to pollute my neighbors yard with trash or my neighbors water with chemicals. People have property rights and they will be respected in my administration. The government won't abuse eminent domain and we won't allow citizens Constitutional rights to be trampled on for the profits of WallStreet" Something like that, but RP stopped his answer short and didn't finish it because he wanted to answer the conservative question, that he didn't get to answer...so he wasted both questions.

Harry96
01-31-2008, 03:21 AM
Even trying to imagine how I'd feel about the debate if I were seeing all of these candidates for the first time, I have a hard time understanding what people see in McCain. Just that nervous laugh he seems to constantly give makes him seem emotionally unstable to me.

JohnnyWrath
01-31-2008, 03:48 AM
Even trying to imagine how I'd feel about the debate if I were seeing all of these candidates for the first time, I have a hard time understanding what people see in McCain. Just that nervous laugh he seems to constantly give makes him seem emotionally unstable to me.

Doesn't take a degree to understand what his dumbass is attempting to do....he is so self centered and egotistic, that he can't let others talk without his opinion being heard even if silently. McCain is a fucking asshole just like Rudy was.

Romney does not do this like McCain and Rudy do/does, and I have always noted it...I give respect to Romney for that. Huck doesn't do it either. On the dem side....Hillary is the only one I have seen that does this....makes faces, smiles, laughs, etc, while others are talking.... basically the biggest assholes of both sides do this....it gets your photo on even while others are talking.

bj72
01-31-2008, 04:03 AM
RP is missing a few opportunities. My husband is in the military, and was frusturated that while they focused on McCain's military service and how it would make for a good leader/President, that RP didn't pipe up and say "Hey, just want to remind everyone that there are 2 candidates with service records on this stage" or something to that affect. He did well, but needs to jump in and take control a bit more. Of course they aren't going to give him time. If the media can push through a Hillary vs McCain ticket...that would be their wet dream...a liberal Democrat vs a liberal Democrat. It's a win-win either way for them. They are trying to set that stage as much as possible. Huckabee's approach may not be the right one exactly to garner that time, but RP could be a bit more forceful with his approach.

That being said, I cannot imagine how difficult it is to be up there, listening to carefully crafted, slanted questions constantly being given to your opponents with a biased moderator that allows them to monopolize the time and cuts you off (thereby making you feel like you must rush thru a point, and sometimes stumbling in the process). Then to have to sit next to McCain's smug mug....I told my husband, I'd probably stand up, say I've had enough of all your s#$% and leave. Kuddos to RP for keeping a grin and stayin cool :)

JohnnyWrath
01-31-2008, 04:19 AM
If the media can push through a Hillary vs McCain ticket...that would be their wet dream

Know what is really the worst part? It is the backers of these two candidates that know the least of about any issues....most of Hillarys supporters are completely clueless about pretty much everything accept that she is a girl and that they think she didn't vote to start the war....and those supporting McCain....fuck, I still don't even get that one...he is basically half dead and a retard on every issue. He gave out military secrets as a POW that got servicemen killed....then he locked all records from pretty much every POW so nobody could ever know what happened. He also made sure to name his famour dad while a POW....he got better treatment, and his captures actually called him the "crowned prince" even according to his own book.

I think McCain and Hillary are actually the two that missed the most votes during their terms out of the entire congress.....McCain missed like 55% of the votes while he served....#1 on missed votes only behind some guy who fell ill and didn't return?

It is sickening really how stupid the American public is....


I told my husband, I'd probably stand up, say I've had enough of all your s#$% and leave. Kuddos to RP for keeping a grin and stayin cool

I would go off and tell them to fuck themselves while I flipped over the desk, but thank god Ron has more cool than myself.

ziggrl
01-31-2008, 06:04 AM
Ron Paul = foreign policy
John McCain = war

I think they both need to speak of other issues. McCain was asked by AC about the economy and he completely dismissed the question and started talking about war again.

mcgraw_wv
01-31-2008, 06:35 AM
As a die hard Ron Paul fan, I was excited to hear him stress his typical points. As an objective observer, he lost badly, he did nothing to gain NEW voters, and that is the POINT of these debates.

acptulsa
01-31-2008, 07:07 AM
Didn't get to see it. Pity, but I'm glad to hear Romney stopped McCain's momentum. Too bad Huckabee didn't do better. We need those three to be as even as possible to get the brokered convention we so desperately want.

realist
01-31-2008, 07:22 AM
I hesitate to say this but as a paying contributer, I have as much right to an opinion as the next guy and I can't help but be disappointed that what started out with so much promise, is going to end in such failure.

Those that think Dr. Pual did well with those he needed to convert last night are dillusional. We needed a home run, and we came up woefully short. I don't know who did worse, him or McCain but face it, we're competing for worst, not best..

There is no fight in this dog. Huckabee showed some spine when he was ignored and he hasn't been ignored half as bad as Dr. Paul has been... REPEATEDLY. Dr. Paul shows no spine, and respectfully gets shut-up by a MODERATOR? ... "we'll get back to you.. I promise...in 2 minutes... or 2 questions." COME ON! In the face of the others candidates abuse of time?? To let that happen is just cowardice. Then, Huckabee invokes his name as well as McCains in an answer and Paul doesn't demand a chance to rebutt it, as was his right, but insane McCain does!

Face it folks, Dr. Paul is what he is. A very intelligent man of principle with great ideas. But he is not Presidential material. Like every other contest, he allowed himself to be marginalized and the only reason he's still on the scene is becuase we keep funding this "movement". We keep asking americans to wake up... perhaps it's time some of us woke to the reality that this is headed to being little more than a bowel movement with respect to any chnace of winning the republican nomination.

Thrashertm
01-31-2008, 07:37 AM
RP is missing a few opportunities. My husband is in the military, and was frusturated that while they focused on McCain's military service and how it would make for a good leader/President, that RP didn't pipe up and say "Hey, just want to remind everyone that there are 2 candidates with service records on this stage" or something to that affect. He did well, but needs to jump in and take control a bit more. Of course they aren't going to give him time. If the media can push through a Hillary vs McCain ticket...that would be their wet dream...a liberal Democrat vs a liberal Democrat. It's a win-win either way for them. They are trying to set that stage as much as possible. Huckabee's approach may not be the right one exactly to garner that time, but RP could be a bit more forceful with his approach.

That being said, I cannot imagine how difficult it is to be up there, listening to carefully crafted, slanted questions constantly being given to your opponents with a biased moderator that allows them to monopolize the time and cuts you off (thereby making you feel like you must rush thru a point, and sometimes stumbling in the process). Then to have to sit next to McCain's smug mug....I told my husband, I'd probably stand up, say I've had enough of all your s#$% and leave. Kuddos to RP for keeping a grin and stayin cool :)

I believe they cut off RP's mic when he wasn't asked question directly. I remember seeing at least once when he tried to interject and no sound came forth.

However, you can be sure they kept McCain's and Romney's mics on the whole time they were having their silly tit-for-tat exchanges. They are about as presidential as a dirty diaper!

worl
01-31-2008, 07:39 AM
I have been waiting for some big move since the start of this campain & its just not there. Dr. Paul is smart but he is not a debater. Last nite was his worst debate yet. He just sit there & took everything they dished out. You know I think I would have just told cnn they should have invited just mccain & romney. He did'nt even try to interupt the others while they were telling their lies. I think my only other choice would have to be huck , so again I have to pick the lesser of evils.

jbuttell
01-31-2008, 10:47 AM
Not presidential material... Ok you keep thinking that. We're all well aware of what could happen... Your defeatist attitude does nothing positive here. So whats your real motivation here?




I hesitate to say this but as a paying contributer, I have as much right to an opinion as the next guy and I can't help but be disappointed that what started out with so much promise, is going to end in such failure.

Those that think Dr. Pual did well with those he needed to convert last night are dillusional. We needed a home run, and we came up woefully short. I don't know who did worse, him or McCain but face it, we're competing for worst, not best..

There is no fight in this dog. Huckabee showed some spine when he was ignored and he hasn't been ignored half as bad as Dr. Paul has been... REPEATEDLY. Dr. Paul shows no spine, and respectfully gets shut-up by a MODERATOR? ... "we'll get back to you.. I promise...in 2 minutes... or 2 questions." COME ON! In the face of the others candidates abuse of time?? To let that happen is just cowardice. Then, Huckabee invokes his name as well as McCains in an answer and Paul doesn't demand a chance to rebutt it, as was his right, but insane McCain does!

Face it folks, Dr. Paul is what he is. A very intelligent man of principle with great ideas. But he is not Presidential material. Like every other contest, he allowed himself to be marginalized and the only reason he's still on the scene is becuase we keep funding this "movement". We keep asking americans to wake up... perhaps it's time some of us woke to the reality that this is headed to being little more than a bowel movement with respect to any chnace of winning the republican nomination.

Sandra
01-31-2008, 10:53 AM
From what I gathered from most people I talked to last night and this morning, McCain looked bad. His maturity level is the biggest concern.

Time for Change
01-31-2008, 11:13 AM
I need to disagree a bit.
Yes time was a hot commodity for Ron and Huck.
Given the lack of allowed time, I think Huck did a great job getting his jabs in.
He did some avoidance tactics, which I frown upon, but overall he did well.
Much more respectable than the McRomney bickering.
RP did good to emphasize the point that this bickering was counterproductive and wasting all our time.

He was visibly aggravated by the mod, and did way better than I would have. I would have been a bit pushier and a little more rude.
I guess that's why I am not up for any nominations...hehe.

Overall the best performer was Huck. Well spoken, but not informative.
The most direct answers were from Huck and RP.
McRomney were just a waste of time, directly ignoring questions to rant about other issues / accomplishments.
YES RP needs to slow a bit when speaking, but I can sympathize with his need to deliver his message before he gets cut off.
Working out an answer and delivering it rapidly is NOT conducive to additional thought, so I give him lots of credit for being able to do as well as he did given the conditions.

Had the media been less biased in their question direction /. selection we could have learned a LOT more about each of the candidates.
Hopefully they one day realize that their role is to extract informative discussions from the candidates, not complete BS Q&A to only a couple to the esteemed guests.

Rebel Resource
01-31-2008, 11:16 AM
Listen guys, if you want a majority of voters to even know about the problems of America come November, you need to repeat those problems EACH and EVERY opportunity you get.

You might sound like you're from Mars the first time, but when someone's hearing it for the 3rd time its starting to make sense.

Rebel Resource
01-31-2008, 11:21 AM
Dr. Paul shows no spine, and respectfully gets shut-up by a MODERATOR? ... "we'll get back to you.. I promise...in 2 minutes... or 2 questions." COME ON! In the face of the others candidates abuse of time?? To let that happen is just cowardice. Then, Huckabee invokes his name as well as McCains in an answer and Paul doesn't demand a chance to rebutt it, as was his right, but insane McCain does!

Face it folks, Dr. Paul is what he is. A very intelligent man of principle with great ideas. But he is not Presidential material.

Listen, you can talk over the moderator and win some hearts, or you can remain respectful of the debate, not take the risk of looking stupid, and win the minds.

You seem to forget the risk of looking stupid when you try to assert yourself. I for sure would jog this marathon without unnecessary bursts of energy to overtake people midway.

dare me
01-31-2008, 11:35 AM
I hesitate to say this but as a paying contributer, I have as much right to an opinion as the next guy and I can't help but be disappointed that what started out with so much promise, is going to end in such failure.

Those that think Dr. Pual did well with those he needed to convert last night are dillusional. We needed a home run, and we came up woefully short. I don't know who did worse, him or McCain but face it, we're competing for worst, not best..

There is no fight in this dog. Huckabee showed some spine when he was ignored and he hasn't been ignored half as bad as Dr. Paul has been... REPEATEDLY. Dr. Paul shows no spine, and respectfully gets shut-up by a MODERATOR? ... "we'll get back to you.. I promise...in 2 minutes... or 2 questions." COME ON! In the face of the others candidates abuse of time?? To let that happen is just cowardice. Then, Huckabee invokes his name as well as McCains in an answer and Paul doesn't demand a chance to rebutt it, as was his right, but insane McCain does!

Face it folks, Dr. Paul is what he is. A very intelligent man of principle with great ideas. But he is not Presidential material. Like every other contest, he allowed himself to be marginalized and the only reason he's still on the scene is becuase we keep funding this "movement". We keep asking americans to wake up... perhaps it's time some of us woke to the reality that this is headed to being little more than a bowel movement with respect to any chnace of winning the republican nomination.

Dude, you cant make a big disturbance, cause then they have a reason to not invite you next time. If the rest of the field falls out and there are two or three left, then they have to give him the time. But if he makes a fuss and bitch slaps the *** anderson, then he will never be in another debate. Everyone saw what they did to RP. The people that i'm trying to convert noticed it and all said they wanted to puke. They realized even if they dont agree with RP, something is very wrong with how we pick our president. I'm telling you, they are more RP supporters now just because he was marganilized. you think huck has spine by complaining????? Give me a break. He looked like a crying bastard, but I feel for him.

Question_Authority
01-31-2008, 11:41 AM
I don't think Huckabee looked bad at all. I think when there is an injustice happening people have to stand up against it. I think by pointing out the injustice he might have woken people up to it. And made them realize that there is media bias.

MikeStanart
01-31-2008, 12:33 PM
Romney won, but only because he was given enough time to Win

WarningSLO
01-31-2008, 12:54 PM
I think Dr. Paul needs to spend a little less time talking about the Fed and IRS and spend a little more time on:

Opting out of SS & Medicare for young people
Eliminating the Estate Tax
Eliminating the Tip Tax
Lowering Corporate taxes to create more jobs

These are everyday things that people will find more believable than eliminating the IRS. People just can't comprehend that kind of change yet.

realist
01-31-2008, 12:59 PM
Thanks for all the reasoned replies. I read every word and I have nothing but the best wishes for Dr. Paul and all the folks here, but must I respectfully present that this continued sense of denial in the face of the facts, is more counter productive than airing dissent.

Listen to our own words- listen to Dr. Pauls words - the market works. Look at the numbers. Not just thier numbers but even our numbers bear out that this movement isn't growing enough to have a chance at the nomination. Some would argue- "o, it's going great, we're right on track, we're sandbagging, soon it will be just two, we won last night and we're going all the way!" These same people will never accept reality, even as someone else wins the nomination and then the Presidency.

Many here will never admit to failure and always find a way to deflect blame. But that's exactly the mentality of those that rely on the government for everything. That's exactly the mentality that Dr. Paul condemns. They beleive that if they don't have something, it must be someone else fault - the governments fault, the medias fault, the riches fault, the establishements fault. They will never even consider the possibility that the reasons they are where they are, comes from within and needs to be corrected from within..

We are where we are becuase this campaign IS failing in the only place it counts - at the polls. That's a fact. A fact I wish weren't so, but it is a fact that I can't in good conscience spin any other way.

For those that want to hope in the face of the facts- by all means- I have nothing but love for you. But understand, your hope is bound to faith, not facts- and while that can be a good thing, to try and "convert the masses" with assertions on "faith", in the face of facts to the contrary, is hardly convincing. I admit, I am loosing my faith in the face of the facts.

mconder
01-31-2008, 12:59 PM
If Ron Paul would have had equal time it would be more fair to say that Romney won the debate. Romney won because he was given the most time.

pacelli
01-31-2008, 01:11 PM
Looks like our fair-weather Ron Paul supporters are going for Romney or Huckabee. Have fun.

ZzzImAsleep
01-31-2008, 01:24 PM
Romney made sense.


Are you serious?

blakjak
01-31-2008, 02:14 PM
fair assessment.

mcgraw_wv
01-31-2008, 02:25 PM
We/Ron has had ample time to attack and create an alternative to Romney and McCain, and he simply hasn't. He's a broken record in debates, and Although I love and understand his message, it doesn't turn casual Americans on to the message.

So therefore harping on the Fed, and the Gold Standard is simply ignoring the political reality of how to win voters, and campaigns. Last night was his chance to win over voters, he could of had his "Wait a second, I paid for this Mic" moment with Cooper... and he just backed down.

What Anderson did to Ron was EXACTLY what someone did to Reagan, when Reagan wasn't a sure thing... Remember, most GOP'er DID not support Reagan at first. IT was his "I PAID FOR THIS MIC" Moment, that made everyone stop and listen to what this STRONG man had to say.

Paul has his chance before the biggest day, Super Tuesday to show that he IS a viable alternative to the casual voter. Instead he focused on talking about the things that NO ONE CARES ABOUT... so he gained no voters, or he gained as many as he lost...

Overall, the effort has done nothing to gain enough voters to make a splash... And I think that has to do with a lot of inexperience on the staff, and supporters part... Winning a campaign is an art, a perfect blend of Marketing, Art, Substance, and Timing...

When opportunities present themselves, they must be taken in a presidential campaign...

Agora
01-31-2008, 02:30 PM
Romney lost for people who listened and watched his smirky face. He is just another over paid pupett, nothing more.

nuff