Ron should change his message...and win

[davidfarrar]

We all know and admire Dr. Paul's vote on the Iraq war issue. He was right then. He is right now.

But politics is a matter of perception. There is one thing all conservatives agree on, once engages, no matter if the war was started for the right reason or the wrong reason, All Americans want to win, especially conservatives.

I think it is possible for Dr. Paul to run on his record, but shift his emphasis to a "safe" withdrawal from Iraq when our interests are protected.

If Dr. Paul can give conservatives a reason not to vote for McCain, they just might do it.

[acptulsa]

Better we change our message to, only Dr. Paul can win the general election and only Dr. Paul can keep the Republican Party growing and end the shrinkage, and the war is a large part of the reason why.

Besides, he isn't for loading the C-130s the day after the inauguration as you suggest.

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

I agree that saying the withdrawal should be done "safely and reasonably" would probably help. Saying "Just come home" probably scares some people.

[nate895]

Better we change our message to, only Dr. Paul can win the general election and only Dr. Paul can keep the Republican Party growing and end the shrinkage, and the war is a large part of the reason why.

Besides, he isn't for loading the C-130s the day after the inauguration as you suggest.

It's impossible to save taxpayer dollars if you left so precipitously, we need the equipment in case we need to get into a war that is legitimate.

[raystone]

I hear ya, I just wrote this for the forum

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=105735

[davidfarrar]

Better we change our message to, only Dr. Paul can win the general election and only Dr. Paul can keep the Republican Party growing and end the shrinkage, and the war is a large part of the reason why.

Besides, he isn't for loading the C-130s the day after the inauguration as you suggest.


Well, that is certainly the perception Dr. Paul's campaign has made so far, unless I am wrong. I could be wrong...been wrong before on things like this.

[tuckessee]

You fools need to realize you LOST in Iraq. Just as you lost in Vietnam. If America doesn't have this realization they'll wind up doing the same shit again and again and again. America is not ready for RP. It can't handle the truth.

[davidfarrar]

You fools need to realize you LOST in Iraq. Just as you lost in Vietnam. If America doesn't have this realization they'll wind up doing the same shit again and again and again. America is not ready for RP. It can't handle the truth.

And how would you suggest we all work together to ensue that America can handle the truth hereafter?

[tuckessee]

And how would you suggest we all work together to ensue that America can handle the truth hereafter?
What's "working together" have to do with anything? This isn't a kumbaya sing along. Until American simpletons learn the insanity, illegality & immoralty of invading everyone trying to be world's policeman it's going to occur again & again.

[JMann]

You fools need to realize you LOST in Iraq. Just as you lost in Vietnam. If America doesn't have this realization they'll wind up doing the same shit again and again and again. America is not ready for RP. It can't handle the truth.

This is the kind of attitude that solidifies Paul's current single digit results and the complete and utter failure that is the Libertarian party.

Government and governing is about putting together winning coalitions. If you want to be a philosopher join the faculty at a university, become an author or manage to work yourself in the US House of Reps. I can assure you that no one will never become a leader unless you are willing to moderate your positions in order to build a majority.

[acptulsa]

What's "working together" have to do with anything? This isn't a kumbaya sing along. Until American simpletons learn the insanity, illegality & immoralty of invading everyone trying to be world's policeman it's going to occur again & again.

Yes, but nothing makes an American more stubborn than calling him or her a simpleton--unless its calling him or her a "sheeple" (once they figure it out, that is).

[hvac ak47]

Until American simpletons learn the insanity, illegality & immoralty of invading everyone trying to be world's policeman it's going to occur again & again.

This is what we Ron Paul supporters are trying to do!!! Do you have any advice on how to get the rest of America to join us? If not you need to take your America bashing somewhere else!:mad:

[tuckessee]

This is what we Ron Paul supporters are trying to do!!! Do you have any advice on how to get the rest of America to join us? If not you need to take your America bashing somewhere else!:mad:

"America bashing'"? Where the hell am I, FR? You're not doing anyone any favors by selling an ill-conceived, immoral, poorly prosecuted war as a "victory".

[JMann]

This is what we Ron Paul supporters are trying to do!!! Do you have any advice on how to get the rest of America to join us? If not you need to take your America bashing somewhere else!:mad:

You have to understand, there are libertarian purist. These folks would rather squirm around in the muck and be right (in which I agree with them most of the time) than come to agreements and build majorities and win. Yes, it may cause you to have to give up some of what you want but you will never get anything you want unless you are in power. This is the main reason the Libertarian Party (at the national level) isn't worth waisting a vote on.

[yongrel]

Don't change the message, just change the wording. Dr. Paul has always advocated a safe withdrawal. He just has a different idea of what safe withdrawal means.

I wouldn't be opposed to him using some good ol' fashion wordplay to package his message.

[LibertyEagle]

You fools need to realize you LOST in Iraq. Just as you lost in Vietnam. If America doesn't have this realization they'll wind up doing the same shit again and again and again. America is not ready for RP. It can't handle the truth.

Since you say, "you LOST", it makes me think you are not American. If not, where are you from?

[tuckessee]

Since you say, "you LOST", it makes me think you are not American. If not, where are you from?

Kentucky.

[shadowhooch]

You fools need to realize you LOST in Iraq. Just as you lost in Vietnam. If America doesn't have this realization they'll wind up doing the same shit again and again and again. America is not ready for RP. It can't handle the truth.

No, quite the opposite. We WON the war in Iraq. They are no longer a threat to our national security (if they ever were).

Instead of "come home now", he should stress that they should come home by the end of 2009. We've done our due diliegence and it is time for the Iraqi people to control their own country.
I think MOST people would agree with that and, in reality, that is probably as quick as they could be pulled out in a Ron Paul presidency.

[wgadget]

Better we change our message to, only Dr. Paul can win the general election and only Dr. Paul can keep the Republican Party growing and end the shrinkage, and the war is a large part of the reason why.

Besides, he isn't for loading the C-130s the day after the inauguration as you suggest.

Yeah, I've actually heard people voting for McCain because of that poll that says he's the closest to beating Hillary. Whatever..

[Shink]

Ron should let people know he will bring the troops out for their sake and protect veterans and strengthen the economy in a safe, 'reasonable' manner. I don't want this to become 'Ron won't get troops out right away....maybe in 5 months...8 months...2 years, etc.' If Ron were to change his mind on getting troops out of the occupation in Iraq, I would immediately withdraw my support and request my donations back.

By the way, you guys in the 'WON!' 'LOST!' shouting match: THIS IS AN OCCUPATION---NOT A WAR! You cannot 'win' an occupation, nor is an occupation a 'contest' of any kind to 'lose.' What is lost is the lives of American troops, the normal functioning of many thousands more, and millions of dead innocents, not a 'war.'

[pinkmandy]

Don't change the message, just change the wording. Dr. Paul has always advocated a safe withdrawal. He just has a different idea of what safe withdrawal means.

I wouldn't be opposed to him using some good ol' fashion wordplay to package his message.

Well said. The word play is what the sheeple like. It's all they seem to understand...they shut out blatant truth. They need to be eased into understanding.

[tuckessee]

No, quite the opposite. We WON the war in Iraq. They are no longer a threat to our national security (if they ever were).

Instead of "come home now", he should stress that they should come home by the end of 2009. We've done our due diliegence and it is time for the Iraqi people to control their own country.
I think MOST people would agree with that and, in reality, that is probably as quick as they could be pulled out in a Ron Paul presidency. Holy Crap! Iraq is destroyed. Basic services have collapsed, the country is spiraling into eternal ethnic conflict & legions of motivated anti-American fighters have been created and you have the nerve to say "we WON"???? Who is your "we"?

[Shink]

Ron should let people know he will bring the troops out for their sake and protect veterans and strengthen the economy in a safe, 'reasonable' manner. I don't want this to become 'Ron won't get troops out right away....maybe in 5 months...8 months...2 years, etc.' If Ron were to change his mind on getting troops out of the occupation in Iraq, I would immediately withdraw my support and request my donations back.

By the way, you guys in the 'WON!' 'LOST!' shouting match: THIS IS AN OCCUPATION---NOT A WAR! You cannot 'win' an occupation, nor is an occupation a 'contest' of any kind to 'lose.' What is lost is the lives of American troops, the normal functioning of many thousands more, and millions of dead innocents, not a 'war.'

Alright, goddammit--BUMP. Think about this--I don't want to hear any 'we won' 'we lost' shit. I've BEEN THERE, okay?! This is an occupation. Just like sitting on a couch and smothering a litter of kittens, there's nothing about it that is a contest to 'win' or 'lose!' FUCK!:mad::mad::mad:

[hvac ak47]

"America bashing'"? Where the hell am I, FR? You're not doing anyone any favors by selling an ill-conceived, immoral, poorly prosecuted war as a "victory".

What the fuck do you mean by, you're and you fools??? Not everyone sees the ill-conceived, immoral, poorly prosecuted war as a "victory"!

To come here on a Ron Paul forum and say all Americans are fools and put Ron Paul supporters in the same catagory is fucking crazy!

You can kiss my ass!:mad:

[tuckessee]

You can kiss my ass!:mad:
I might just do that. Since it's located above your collar I shouldn't have any problems finding it.

[hvac ak47]

I might just do that. Since it's located above your collar I shouldn't have any problems finding it.

Do you have a reason to be here?

Are you here to help get Ron Paul elected?

[Shink]

You both should shut up and pay attention to the words of someone who's BEEN in Iraq. ME. I wasn't posting for my amusement. I'd be happy to let you two catfight 'til the mods step in if you don't want to see the middle ground in your argument, which is thus: you are wrong.

[tuckessee]

You both should shut up and pay attention to the words of someone who's BEEN in Iraq. ME. I wasn't posting for my amusement. I'd be happy to let you two catfight 'til the mods step in if you don't want to see the middle ground in your argument, which is thus: you are wrong.
You lost in Iraq. You created enemies by invading, enemies you can not defeat. America is more at risk. The reputation of the US military is shot. The US is going broke fighting the partisans opposing the occupation. The region is closer to expolding into wider war. You lost. Big time. Utter, complete failure.

[hvac ak47]

You both should shut up and pay attention to the words of someone who's BEEN in Iraq. ME. I wasn't posting for my amusement. I'd be happy to let you two catfight 'til the mods step in if you don't want to see the middle ground in your argument, which is thus: you are wrong.

I never said we won or lost! I think we lost, I think the whole fucking world did!

I dont understand why he was talking like all Americans are to blame!:confused:

[hvac ak47]

You lost in Iraq. You created enemies by invading, enemies you can not defeat. America is more at risk. The reputation of the US military is shot. The US is going broke fighting the partisans opposing the occupation. The region is closer to expolding into wider war. You lost. Big time. Utter, complete failure.

I agree!!! But dont fucking say I am to blame!!

[tuckessee]

Do you have a reason to be here?

Are you here to help get Ron Paul elected?
I have been a substantial financial contibutor to Dr. Ron Paul since well before this election. Long before his message got watered down by coattail riders & busy bodies. What are your creds?

[davidfarrar]

I have been a substantial financial contibutor to Dr. Ron Paul since well before this election. Long before his message got watered down by coattail riders & busy bodies. What are your creds?

To see Dr. Paul win this election and have his political philosophy adopted by the Republican Party and beyond.


THE PEOPLE