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fade
01-29-2008, 09:59 PM
I received this email from my dad, who supports Ron Paul since he is only one who tells the truth and has good libertarian views.. Unfortunately my dad still supports the war in iraq. he's under the idea of it's safer to fight them and kill a lot of them than to have them attack us again. he thinks its cuz of our freedom, their religion, etc.

thats off topic.

I received this email from him.. does anyone know if it's valid? I'm really not surprised since clinton was a shitty president as well and sent troops a few different directions during his term.

***********
The following information is very informative and something I had not seen before. The figures are found in a publication by the Congressional Research Service that was prepared for Congress in 2007. The figures are extremely interesting when compared to general opinions many have.



There is a link at the end of this email for the actual report and I have also included a copy that can be read at your leisure or printed if desired.

MILITARY DEATHS FOR TWENTY YEARS

Bet you didn't know the following! I surely was not fully aware of all these eye-opening facts: Since the start of the war on terror in Iraq and Afghanistan , the sacrifice has been enormous. In the time period from the invasion of Iraq in March 2003 through now, we have lost over 3000 military personnel to enemy action and accidents.

As tragic as the loss of any member of the US Armed Forces is, consider the following statistics - the annual fatalities of military members while actively serving in the armed forces from 1980 through 2006:

----------------------------------------------------------
1980 .......... 2,392
1981 .......... 2,380
1984 .......... 1,999
1988 .......... 1,819
1989 .......... 1,636
1990 ......... 1,508
1991 .......... 1,787
1992 .......... 1,293 <------------------------------
1993 .......... 1,213
1994 .......... 1,075
1995 ...........2,465
1996 ......... 2,318 8 Clinton years @ 13,417 deaths
1997 .......... 817
1998 .......... 2,252
1999 .......... 1,984 <-----------------------------
2000 .......... 1,983
2001 .......... 890
2002 .......... 1,007 7 Bush years @ 9,016 deaths
2003 .......... 1,410
2004 .......... 1,887
2005 ......... 919
2006.......... 920
----------------------------------------------------------

If you are confused when you look at these figures...so was I.

Do these figures mean that the loss from the two latest conflicts in the Middle East are LESS than the loss of military personnel during Mr. Clinton's presidency; when America wasn't even involved in a war?

And, I was even more impressed; when I read that in 1980, during the reign of President (Nobel Peace Prize) Jimmy Carter, there were 2,392 US military fatalities!

These figures indicate that many of our Media & Politicians pick and choose. They present only those "facts" which support their agenda-driven reporting.

Why do so many of them march in lock-step to twist the truth?

Where do so many of them get their marching-orders for their agenda?

Our Mainstream print and TV media, and many politicians like to slant; that these brave men and women, who are losing their lives in Iraq , are mostly minorities! Wrong AGAIN--- just one more media lie! The latest census, of Americans, shows the following distribution of American citizens, by Race:

----------------------------------------------------------
European descent (White) ....... 69.12%

Hispanic ................................ 12.5%

Black.................................... 12.3%

Asian ...................................... 3.7%

Native American ..................... . 1.0%

Other ....................................... 2.6%
----------------------------------------------------------

Now... here are the fatalities by race; over the past three years in Iraqi Freedom:

----------------------------------------------------------
European descent (white) ..... 74.31%

Hispanic ............................. 10.74%

Black ................................... 9.67%

Asian ................................. . 1.81%

Native American .................... 1.09%

Other .................................... .33%
----------------------------------------------------------

You do the math! These figures don't lie... but, the liberal media chooses to ignore the facts...and they sway public opinion! These statistics are published by Congressional Research Service, and they may be confirmed by anyone at:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf

Now ask yourself these two questions:

"Why does the mainstream print and TV media never print statistics like these?" and

"Why do the mainstream media hate the web as much as they do?"

Because the mainstream media is controlled by liberals who have an agenda that is not supported by publication of these facts. Bottom Line?

Do your own research and do not be swayed by what you see on TV or read in most newspapers.

Then, regardless of your party, go to the polls and cast your own vote!



DISCLAIMER: This document was not intended or written to be used, and it cannot be used, for the purpose of avoiding tax penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer.******

Thanks guys

TurtleBurger
01-29-2008, 10:30 PM
The numbers posted do not match the numbers at the link provided. It looks like the numbers under Bush are about double Clinton's numbers.

It's also useful to look at the breakdown of the numbers. Since the 80s, the military has been constantly improving at reducing the number of deaths caused by accident, even before Bush took office. The number of deaths caused by hostile action was 1 under Clinton, and several thousand under Bush.

bbachtung
01-29-2008, 10:31 PM
Looking at the table on page 11 of the linked source document (http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf), I find the following discrepancies between the e-mail text and the document:

Bush II years:

2001 891 (accurate)
2002 999 (not 1,007)
2003 1,228 (not 1,410)
2004 1,874 (not 1,887)
2005 deaths were 1,942 (not 919)
2006 deaths were 1,858 (not 920)
Accurate Total: 8,792 (through 6 Bush II years)

Clinton years:

1993 1,213 (accurate)
1994 1,075 (accurate)
1995 1,040 (not 2,465)
1996 974 (not 2,318)
1997 817 (accurate)
1998 827 (not 2,252)
1999 796 (not 1,984)
2000 758 (not 1,983)
Accurate Total: 7,500 (through 8 Clinton years)

Why someone creating a chain e-mail would need to lie about statistics regarding our dead military men and women is beyond me, but it appears that someone fudged the numbers to Bush's overall "benefit." Both Clinton and Bush II (and Bush I, for that matter) misused our military men and women to fight undeclared wars and police the world.

Elliott
01-29-2008, 11:42 PM
Looking at the table on page 11 of the linked source document (http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf), I find the following discrepancies between the e-mail text and the document:

Bush II years:

2001 891 (accurate)
2002 999 (not 1,007)
2003 1,228 (not 1,410)
2004 1,874 (not 1,887)
2005 deaths were 1,942 (not 919)
2006 deaths were 1,858 (not 920)
Accurate Total: 8,792 (through 6 Bush II years)

Clinton years:

1993 1,213 (accurate)
1994 1,075 (accurate)
1995 1,040 (not 2,465)
1996 974 (not 2,318)
1997 817 (accurate)
1998 827 (not 2,252)
1999 796 (not 1,984)
2000 758 (not 1,983)
Accurate Total: 7,500 (through 8 Clinton years)

Why someone creating a chain e-mail would need to lie about statistics regarding our dead military men and women is beyond me, but it appears that someone fudged the numbers to Bush's overall "benefit." Both Clinton and Bush II (and Bush I, for that matter) misused our military men and women to fight undeclared wars and police the world.

Other than the Somalia (Mogadishu) incident under Clinton, what was killing all these soldiers? I'm sure there were random helo/jet accidents but these numbers do seem insanely high. If I remember correctly we lost about 20 in Mogadishu, but that's the only major combat incident I even remember.

fade
01-30-2008, 11:15 AM
I appreciate all your guys' help. I could have looked these numbers up myself, and began to but was in a bit of a time crunch. I'll keep looking it up and see whats happening.

I'm also curious what was causing the deaths during clinton's presidency.

Redcard
01-30-2008, 11:19 AM
This is standard republican fare.

They can't defend their leader's actions, so they make up crap about their opponents former leader.

Bill Clinton, when all is said and done, lied under oath in an interrogation that started out being about illegal land deals and ended up being a deposition on his sex life.

If you think Ron Paul would support people being asked about their private lives as part of an official independant counsel investigation, then, I've got some swampland in Arizona for ya

It's just typical Republican politics.