What do I say to a person about Iraq?

[DeadtoSin]

I'm going to be talking to someone tommorow that is very pro Iraq War. What do I say to them about why we should leave? What will I talk about when he says that when we pull out it will cause a lot of turmoil in the nation? He will probably cite the massacre that happened when we pull out of Vietnam, because he is fairly history savvy.

Thanks!

[Drknows]

The cost of the war.

let them know how much money is being spent and how it effects the economy. Tell them china is our pawn shop. We borrow billions from them then spend billions buying their exports.

[Alabama Supporter]

Talk about social security, no irs, and balanced budgets. The war is a deep seeded belief in most people, and I don't recommend trying to convince them otherwise.

My wife has been brainwashed in regards to Iraq and we just had a knockdown drag out because my church congregation supposedly worships the Prince of Peace, yet they love war.

[bbachtung]

If he's "history savvy," then he'll acknowledge that Vietnam is now a trading partner of ours and the people there are enjoying a much better standard of living. Also, who elected the U.S. protector of Iraq and how many American lives is it worth to "stabilize" Iraq?

[DeadtoSin]

Well, the man I am talking to is a fellow Christian. Sadly, the war in Iraq is the main thing that Christians have been hoodwinked on. How do I appeal to him here? In Vietnam he will talk about the cost of the lives that happened to people in Vietnam after we left?

Do I merely minimize the fact by saying it got bad for a little short time, and got rapidly better. Then mention that we are now trading partners with them?

Any suggestions on the loss of life issue would be great...

[DeadtoSin]

Yeah, just a little bit more input will probably suffice guys. I've almost got the thought flowing coherently in my head..

[Indy Vidual]

What do I say to a person about Iraq?

If the surge is really working, why are we still there?

[evadmurd]

Quote one of my favorite people:

"Just come home. We just marched in and we should just march out." -- Ron Paul

[CzargwaR]

shift the topic to democrat vs republican in primary. Say majority of population is against the war, republicans lost 2006 election because of pro-war stance. If republicans lose now, democrats have full control of gov't.

We don't want a welfare, national health care, more taxes state. Can't let this happen so republicans should nominate someone that is against the war but still has republican positions on domestic issues- Ron Paul- that's the only way republicans will have chance

Basically try to find common ground and work Ron Paul into it.

[marsha s]

Tell him we've completed the mission - Saddam is gone. Now we are just fighting against Iraqis who want us out of there. They won't quit fighting us until we leave - never - as long as we're there. How many lives and dollars is it worth just to keep a presence there? Was that the goal he had in mind at the start of the war? A permanent presence there? To what end?

Tell him that a majority of the Iraqi legislature - that we helped create and want to legitimize - wants us gone. Why do we now disregard what they have to say?

[reaver]

I'm going to be talking to someone tommorow that is very pro Iraq War. What do I say to them about why we should leave? What will I talk about when he says that when we pull out it will cause a lot of turmoil in the nation? He will probably cite the massacre that happened when we pull out of Vietnam, because he is fairly history savvy.

Thanks!

[from an Iraqi]

Now, I have a story to tell my son Haider about. It is a story that is more interested than Titanic and the Lord of the Rings. Its even deeper in Histroy that the story of the famous Iraqi Myth hero Gelgamish and his firs written epic that we always talked proudly about. It's the STORY OF THE IRAQI FLAG.

Yes we changed the flag and all our problems were solved in a second. Now we shall not care about the electricity problem because our flag will lighten our dark night, it will warm our frozen souls, we will not even think about the thousands of the displaced families because the new flag will be their houses and it will feed their angry hungry stomachs. Now, we will be able to reconstruct our destroyed country because we will build skyscrapers, hospitals and schools made of the Iraqi flags.

I swear I'm still looking for the word that reflects my DEEP DISAPPOINTMENT. Is that what our parliament care about? Shallow issues? Why did they change the flag? To satisfy the Kurds? Well, they will never be satisfied and they will ask for more day after day like fire, it never refuses more fuel. In fact, changing the flag added nothing to the whole political process because it satisfied the Kurds but angered the Sunni who refused to raise the new flag.

I just want to ask our lawmakers "is that all you can do? Do you think that this poor nation went to the election in 2005 when the sectarian violence was everywhere just to give you the chance to change the flag and to approve some other useless laws?

[matratzac]

hand them the movie "why we fight" and "iraq for sale"

[Redmenace]

Tell him that when the British left southern Iraq Violence dropped 90%

Tell him that they said that when we left Vietnam that country would fall into chaos and would create a domino effect that would cause all of southeast Asia to fall under communist rule. They were dead wrong and now Vietnam is a major trading partner and has a booming economy.

[dirka]

Is he already serving in Iraq?? Has he enlisted to help fight.

If he hasn't, tell him that he is a fucking pussy and a coward that would vote to send other brave men and women in his place. I hate these assholes that are pro war but are to pussy to go fight. I am anti war and would never vote to send someone in my place.

[DeadtoSin]

He is in his 50's...he can't enlist...

[faisal]

tell him that there will be more terrorism if we stay. Also tell him we can't afford it, and if all else fails, call him a **** and leave...

[DealzOnWheelz]

Have some enlistment forms there for his children or grandchildren then.

Just ask him if he knew the United States Economy would collapse if we continue this empire what would he think is the best thing to do??


Or

Agree that it's questionable as to whether we stay in IRAQ or not but ask him about the spending on the troops in germany,japan, korea, and all the 129 other countries..

[Akus]

I'm going to be talking to someone tommorow that is very pro Iraq War. What do I say to them about why we should leave? What will I talk about when he says that when we pull out it will cause a lot of turmoil in the nation? He will probably cite the massacre that happened when we pull out of Vietnam, because he is fairly history savvy.

Thanks!

We are running bankrupt. Osama bin Laden has stated that he wants to defeat America by bankrupting it, not military overthrowing it. We are fighting a hostile country by borrowing funds from another hostile country (China) and are running into bankruptcy.

Our troops are underequipped and underfunded and are treated like shit at home when trying to get a medical care.

We are telling Iraquis how to protect their borders while no one is watching ours.

Even if Saddam was a threat, we went with no plan and no knowledge of the Iraqui reality, the religious fractures, and the state of mind of the people. We had no plan what to do once Saddam was gone and Dick Cheney himself back in 1994 stated that attacking Iraq would be a major strategic lapse of judgement.

We are screwed if we leave, true, but we are twice as screwed if we stay. We are achieveing nothing and those good news that you do hear are temporary and subtle. The country's problems are centuries old and American presence will not solve them.

[bolognium]

read up on the Art of War and tell him how this was the biggest strategic mistake the Nation has ever made.. tell him Ron Paul supported the fight in Afghanistan and he's using his wisdom not idealism in his opposition to the war - that it will only make things worse the longer we stay.

"...to fight and conquer in all your battles
is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists
in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."

if we want to defeat islamic fundamentalists then we must make more friends than they do - we can't give them easy propaganda by dropping bombs and invading countries.

read it up - http://www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html

"If you know the enemy
and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a
hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy,
for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat.
If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will
succumb in every battle."

I don't think the US knows either itself or the enemy.

[Magsec]

You know, I used to be for the war as I usually found myself agreeing with Boortz and Rush alot.

Then I stopped listening to them due to scheduling, schooling, etc. Then I heard some commendations about a GOP candidate who was scorned by the others. I took a gander to see what the fuss was about and I listened to his position on Iraq (As I'm a strong proponent of harmony and hearing others out). Then I witnessed Giuliani destroy the very meaning of "debate" and somehow get mass applause for it.

I always thought the whole anti-war thing was just a political position: Party 1 took choice A so Party 2 will have to take choice B and defend that position. I must thank Giuliani, because without that comment I wouldn't have bothered looking into the deeper underpinnings of the war, how it wasn't declared, the "Just War" theory, and the spending. The anti-war position has a lot of support, mostly from the Constitution. The pro-war argument is basically "it's a good thing to do in the long run, (Laws be damned)"

[cheese]

be sure to mention nation building a ton, because that's what we're doing. army's are meant to fight and win wars, not police the streets. I'm not for immediate withdrawal but this nation building shit pisses me off.

The real question you should ask though is, why should we stay? is it worth the trillion dollars and crapping our prosperity? Are we really preventing global terror by occupying a muslim nation?

[midevilmark]

Coming from someone who use to drink the Kool Aid, first ask how many Iraqis were involved in 911. Answer: NONE! Next ask if this is about stopping dictators in a sovereign country, and if it is why do we back Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, etc? Ask how many Al Quada were in Iraq? Answer: NONE, two different sects of Islam, sworn enemies. Then hit him with this:

“Five years ago we were told we needed to go to war with Iraq to protect us here at home. We have confirmed that notion to be completely false in its pretense. Today we are no safer than we were 5 years ago; in fact I believe we are less safe. For every time we kill another Iraqi we spur resentment and in turn create another terrorist. We are not there to route out terrorism, but we are inadvertently creating it. And for what, to protect our assets in the Gulf, which is a loosely veiled reference to oil.

I ask all of you, for this, what is the cost? The young man who never takes his dog for a walk again; the wife who doesn’t grow old with her husband; the mother and father that never spend another Christmas with their son; the soldier that will never see his little girl ride a bike for the first time. So I ask you all again at what cost? Over 3900 people just like you dead, so we can continue our occupation of a foreign land for the next 100 years. Instead of giving lip service let’s really support our troops now, and bring them home today.”

The number as of today was 3941, Why do they not even report on the war anymore on the evening news? I guess no Americans are dying in a foreign country anymore, why are we so ashamed?
And if you have to pull it all together, ask knowing what you know now about Vietnam, would you have sent 65,000 americans to die in southeast Asia?

[RPinSEAZ]

Tell them that with 75% of people opposing the war a vote for a pro-war candidate is a vote for Hillary.

[Leslie Webb]

In September 2006 more than 70% of the Iraqis wanted US troops to leave. I haven't seen any more recent poll numbers.

[RPinSEAZ]

Our spending policies and strategy in Iraq are mangled beyond recognition, and weren't involved with this "victory." that's called the surge. In fact, it was our singular failure to control Anbar province that precipitated the Sunni backlash. As soon as AQ started imposing its own foreign brand of Islam, the locals took up arms. My eyes roll every time Bush cites Anbar province as progress - he had absolutely nothing to do with it.

[jabrownie]

I'm going to be talking to someone tommorow that is very pro Iraq War. What do I say to them about why we should leave? What will I talk about when he says that when we pull out it will cause a lot of turmoil in the nation? He will probably cite the massacre that happened when we pull out of Vietnam, because he is fairly history savvy.

Thanks!

Brits pulled out of Basra....no massacre ensued....actually became more peaceful

[LordBucket]

I'm going to be talking to someone tommorow that is very pro Iraq War.
What do I say to them about why we should leave?


Don't. You're wasting time trying to convince people to change their minds. Instead find out what's important to them and tell them why Ron Paul is what they want.

This guy likes war? Ok, so tell him that Ron Paul is the only Congressman who had the balls to suggest that we declare war on Iraq, unlike that pansy, draft-dodger Bush who decided to be all sneaky and go through the UN. Oh, did I mention draft dodging? Yep, Bush dodged the draft. Not Ron Paul. He was drafted, and he served our country.

Also tell him the Ron Paul served in the Air Force during the Cuban Missiles Crisis, and that while McCain was sitting on his butt in a prison camp, Ron Paul was taking care of our boys so they could back to fighting.

Now, please feel free to be amused at how I've phrased things...but do you think maybe this would be more likely to get the reaction you want?

Bucket Man

[RPinSEAZ]

Don't. You're wasting time trying to convince people to change their minds. Instead find out what's important to them and tell them why Ron Paul is what they want.

This guy likes war? Ok, so tell him that Ron Paul is the only Congressman who had the balls to suggest that we declare war on Iraq, unlike that pansy, draft-dodger Bush who decided to be all sneaky and go through the UN.


Don't forget, Paul tried to get the US to take out Osama bin Laden by hiring out "privateers" (mercenaries) after 9/11 with a Letter of Marque.

[Goldwater Conservative]

We pulled out of Vietnam. They went through turmoil, but they stabilized, and communism did not march all over the globe. In fact, Vietnam is now one of the few nominally communist countries that even still exists, yet they're not much different in their system of government than our socialist friends in Europe and Canada.

If we stay in Iraq to prevent a civil war, we'll lose thousands more of OUR people. And there'd be no guarantee that a civil war wouldn't happen anyway a few years after we left, thinking they were ready. That's just how volatile the region is.

By the way, the British withdrew from Basra, Iraq's second-largest city, and violence dropped by 90%. Why would violence increase overall when a case study has proven that violence actually decreased? The reason much of the violence exists is because we're there. We're the target. If you stick your hand in a snake pit, they will do a lot of biting, but it will subside when you pull your hand out.

[Mark]

I'm going to be talking to someone tommorow that is very pro Iraq War. What do I say to them about why we should leave? What will I talk about when he says that when we pull out it will cause a lot of turmoil in the nation? He will probably cite the massacre that happened when we pull out of Vietnam, because he is fairly history savvy.

Thanks!

If he and his wife were having an argument, and a neighbor came in and destroyed their house, killed one of their kids, and began to move in,

because the neighbor wanted to HELP them stop arguing -

What would he and his wife do?

Love and thank the neighbor, or stop arguing and band together to drive the neighbor out?

Iraqis will NEVER stop fighting against the U.S. being in their country.

We're building PERMANENT bases and an Embassy BIGGER than the Vatican.

They will FIGHT us there until the last man dies or we leave their HOME.

Not to mention us being there is a MAJOR Al Q recruiting incentive.

They just want us OUT of their countries, and that's QUITE understandable. We would want the same thing if THEY were in OUR country.

[robert4rp08]

The economy. The damage our invasion has caused the country (infrastructure, displaced Iraqis, dead Iraqis). No progress (the surge did not work, the goal of the surge was to advance the gov, and that has not happened). By the way, if you mention the cost in American lives... make sure you not only cite the death total, but the number of wounded, the number suffering from traumatic brain injury, the number suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, the increase in suicide, the increase in divorce, and that they are serving 4+ tours of duty. Tell him about nation building (the uber embassy is evidence that we are in Iraq for the long haul to secure the oil, it never had to do with terrorism, WMDs, or overthrowing Saddam).

Our job is done. We overthrew their dictator and "stabilized" the country for them to establish a government. It's up to them to fight for their own country. It's time to come home and take care of our own.

[Mark]

Don't. You're wasting time trying to convince people to change their minds. Instead find out what's important to them and tell them why Ron Paul is what they want.

This guy likes war? Ok, so tell him that Ron Paul is the only Congressman who had the balls to suggest that we declare war on Iraq, unlike that pansy, draft-dodger Bush who decided to be all sneaky and go through the UN. Oh, did I mention draft dodging? Yep, Bush dodged the draft. Not Ron Paul. He was drafted, and he served our country.

Also tell him the Ron Paul served in the Air Force during the Cuban Missiles Crisis, and that while McCain was sitting on his butt in a prison camp, Ron Paul was taking care of our boys so they could back to fighting.

Now, please feel free to be amused at how I've phrased things...but do you think maybe this would be more likely to get the reaction you want?

Bucket Man


Tell them: "McCain was sitting on his butt in a prison camp" - ?

JUST GO BACK TO YOUR OWN BOARD WILL YOU!?

[DeadtoSin]

Guys, you really came through for me. I'm sure he will still disagree with me, but at least I've got some ammo on this now. The other issues are pretty clear cut, so I can win there. Thanks for everything!

[RPinSEAZ]

Tell them: "McCain was sitting on his butt in a prison camp" - ?

JUST GO BACK TO YOUR OWN BOARD WILL YOU!?

Someone's sarcasm detector seems to be broke.

[Knightskye]

Jeff Greenspan would tell you to give them literature and go on to the next house if it takes too long.

Of course, you could quote Dr. Paul - "The people who say there will be a bloodbath are the same people who say'd it would be a cakewalk and that it would be paid for by oil." :)

[DeadtoSin]

Well, these are friends of mine and I'm going to be watching the CNN/Politico debate with them...

[CUnknown]

About Vietnam, they didn't undergo a massacre when we left. There was some political instability and violence of course, sure, but what else can you expect for a country that had just gone through a 25-year brutal colonial and civil war? Things don't magically fix themselves overnight.

Cambodia is the place where the massacre happened, and the conditions that sparked that was due to the instability that we caused by the massive bombing. You really have to consider our own bombing as part of that massacre. When we bomb a country, we tend to kill some people, because we are good at it and have really big bombs. Cambodia wasn't better off when we were there, is what I'm saying.

About Iraq. There are two categories of reasons you can use for why we should leave as soon as possible:

1) Leaving Iraq is best for the US.
a) We are going bankrupt by staying.
b) Our soliders lives can be saved by leaving.
c) Al Qaeda is growing in strength due to the US occupation of Iraq. Our own intellegence agencies confirm this. It's because people are pissed off when we bomb them and want to join a group that is committed to fighting us.
d) Our national security is at risk because our military is wearing itself down in Iraq. Deaths of our soliders are up, recruitment is way down. AWOLs and suicides are also way up. Our military gets weaker every year we stay.

Even McCain (if he were to be elected) will be withdrawing at least some of our troops from Iraq. There really is no other choice due to the state of our military and of our budget. He won't withdraw all the troops, of course, but a significant portion of them leaving is inevitable.

2) Leaving Iraq would be best for the Iraqis.
a) They get their country back. Right now, Iraqi is under occupation from a foreign power (us), and the Iraqi government has no power whatsoever. How would we feel if we were under a military occupation and had no control over our own country? I think we'd want our country back.
b) Al Qaeda has no capability to "take over" Iraq. There are a few thousand of them, compared to I don't know how many million Iraqis. There is no possibility of this happening. What are we worried about if we leave? Iran is a much bigger threat than Al Qaeda, but, the Arab League would not permit Iran to attack Iraq after we left. Saudi Arabia is friendly to us and is now armed to the teeth with the weapons we sold them. Any move by Iran would be countered without us having to do anything.
c) Civil War in Iraq is inevitable whether we stay or leave. The best thing for the Iraqi people is just to get it over with as soon as possible. If we stopped arming and assisting the Sunnis, the Shia (who are like 70% of the population), would simply take power. The Civil War would be pretty quick without our interference. Are we worried that the Shia would oppress the Sunnis, an ethnic minority? Sometimes, you reap what you sow. The Sunnis oppressed the Shia for a long time before we kicked Saddam out of power. Besides, there are plenty of places with oppressed minorites in the world, why do we care so much about this particular one? Also, ironically, it's the Sunni who want us out the most, by some polls. so, if they don't want our "protection", why are we staying there??

The opinion polls of Iraq show that a large majority of the population wants us gone somewhere between immediately and a year from now. The polls show that a majority of Americans want that as well. So, who exactly are we staying in Iraq for? The American and Iraqi people? Doesn't seem like it. More likely, we are staying there for the board of trustees of Exxon/Mobile.

[Mark]

Someone's sarcasm detector seems to be broke.

A new member with 10 posts suggests using - tell them "McCain was sitting on his butt in a prison camp".

Someone's common sense seems to be broken.

[libertarian4321]

I'm going to be talking to someone tommorow that is very pro Iraq War. What do I say to them about why we should leave? What will I talk about when he says that when we pull out it will cause a lot of turmoil in the nation? He will probably cite the massacre that happened when we pull out of Vietnam, because he is fairly history savvy.

Thanks!

The "massacre" in Vietnam after we left was tiny compared to the millions of Vietnamese killed during the war...

[Shink]

I'm going to be talking to someone tommorow that is very pro Iraq War. What do I say to them about why we should leave? What will I talk about when he says that when we pull out it will cause a lot of turmoil in the nation? He will probably cite the massacre that happened when we pull out of Vietnam, because he is fairly history savvy.

Thanks!

Remind him it's easy to be for a war if you aren't actively fighting it. I wish each and every fucking chickenhawk could have been in my boots a few years ago. Tell him that Ron Paul has the most donations from troops and veterans for a reason, and YES, bring up how paying for this FINANCIALLY is destroying our economy. Another point to bring up--chaos because we leave means little. You think it isn't chaos already?!!! The sooner they sort themselves out, the sooner things are stable. Also, pound this one into his skull, as this is factual: YOU DO NOT "WIN" AN OCCUPATION. I wish I could punch every asshole on earth in the face over and over while repeating that phrase.:mad::mad::mad:

Be prepared either for a shouting match or subject avoidance.

[Highstreet]

I'm going to be talking to someone tommorow that is very pro Iraq War. What do I say to them about why we should leave? What will I talk about when he says that when we pull out it will cause a lot of turmoil in the nation? He will probably cite the massacre that happened when we pull out of Vietnam, because he is fairly history savvy.

Thanks!

The same people that said it would be a cake walk going in are the ones who say it would be turmoil if we leave. Why should we listen to them.

The Iraqis want their country back, want us to stop babysitting them. We are foolish to think that their Govt is going to be motivated to solve any problems while we are still there.

Focus on the Economic issue. We borrow $3 Billion a day from China and print the deficit to maintain a false stability in a country that has had internal disputes and power struggles for THOUSANDS of years.

The only thing we are accomplishing is Sinking our Dollar lower than the Canadian dollar and pushing our Economy into recession because of the resultant inflation. We are playing right into Bin Laden's plan. He did the same thing to the Soviets, and has said we are stupid enough to fall for the same trick.

[ralucelom]

war war what is it good for

[all J's in IL for RP]

I'm going to be talking to someone tommorow that is very pro Iraq War. What do I say to them about why we should leave? What will I talk about when he says that when we pull out it will cause a lot of turmoil in the nation? He will probably cite the massacre that happened when we pull out of Vietnam, because he is fairly history savvy.

Thanks!

Tell them the internal and external relocations of some 5 million peoples over the preceding 3 years of sectarian conflict have "solved" the problem of ethnically and religiously mixed neighborhoods. Though doubtless there will be sporadic occurrences of violence, no massacres on a grand scale will happen because the divisions have already become permanent. The Shiite majority, wanting to recover prosperity with themselves firmly entrenched in power, will restrain the more aggressive militias from further acts of destabilizing reprisals. The Sunni minority, having been exposed to the tender mercies of vengeful terrorists bussed in from Saudi Arabia and elsewhere attempting to keep the local populace in line, will want to reassert order in their communities and won't tolerate interlopers trying to stir up trouble.

This may seem like the victory of a "stabilized Iraq" we say we want, but as the true goal of the war was the perpetual use of the permanent bases we've been building, for the general purpose of maintaining a presence in the region, and the specific use of increasing pressure on Iran for further intervention, we will always be targets of IEDs and harassment attacks for as long as we maintain the occupation.

Also, look to my sig.

[patriotcalendar]

Well, the man I am talking to is a fellow Christian. Sadly, the war in Iraq is the main thing that Christians have been hoodwinked on. How do I appeal to him here?

Ask him if the Bible he's been reading from is missing these verses... ?


~~~~~~~~~~

Matthew

~~~~~~~~~~

5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

~~~

5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

~~~

26:51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.

26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

~~~~~~~~~~

Romans

~~~~~~~~~~

12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

~~~~~~~~~~

Share this link with him: http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/9431.htm



Whatever you decide your message will be... best of luck!

[coffeewithchess]

If he isn't very old, and he is so much for the Iraq war then tell him, "You talk a good talk, but if you really support the war, why don't you go join the military and help out over there...I'm sure they would be glad to take you." Of course this could really only be said if he is healthy and young. I would save this as a last resort though...