Prayer at Rallies

[rajibo]

Does Ron Paul always have a prayer before AND after each of his rallies?

I understand he is a man of strong faith, but if you've never heard him before, and are not a Christian, it may end up doing more harm than good in getting those potential supporters.

I was watching the Pittsburgh rally on my computer yesterday, and even alone in my office, I felt a bit uncomfortable during the praying.

I was okay with the one before the rally, but when everybody is getting up to leave and have to stop for another one, that's a bit much.

Just my thoughts....

[MozoVote]

Somewhere in Ron Paul's bios it says he considered becoming a minister before going into medicine. He likes to cite religious faith in a creator during his speeches. I think it fits with his persona, and the belief system of most Republicans.

I think his campaign still attracts more agnostics and pagans than any other Republican candidate, though. I don't view it as a big deal to close my eyes during a prayer. Just meditate or rest, if you are a non-believer.

[Birdlady]

You can't be serious... :eek:

Why is everyone so afraid of people being different or expressing themselves?

It's Ron Paul. It's his campaign. If you want him to change something that drastic such as backing away from his religion, you are taking away everything that makes him what he is! Think about what you just said...seriously!

[Phil M]

No one's saying he should back away from his religion. I have always respected him for being private about his religion and not using it for political gain, but that is what this looks like. Not a good move for a guy who gets 30-40% of his support from atheists and agnostics, as shown by a poll on this forum.

[Birdlady]

No one's saying he should back away from his religion. I have always respected him for being private about his religion and not using it for political gain, but that is what this looks like. Not a good move for a guy who gets 30-40% of his support from atheists and agnostics, as shown by a poll on this forum.

what? political gain? I don't see this at all! Ron Paul is a religious man and so much so that it spreads out into his campaign. Don't get so worked up about it. He doesn't make you pray with him.

If you don't want to pray then don't. I am sure there are others around you that do the same. In fact, I know I saw people around me that were not praying yesterday. It doesn't offend me that they don't pray, so why does it offend you when people DO pray?

[TexMac]

Does Ron Paul always have a prayer before AND after each of his rallies?

I understand he is a man of strong faith, but if you've never heard him before, and are not a Christian, it may end up doing more harm than good in getting those potential supporters.

I was watching the Pittsburgh rally on my computer yesterday, and even alone in my office, I felt a bit uncomfortable during the praying.

I was okay with the one before the rally, but when everybody is getting up to leave and have to stop for another one, that's a bit much.

Just my thoughts....I was there and felt the first one was OK and the second one was a little much. Still, I think it's a one-time thing. RP was in his hometown and all his brothers were there. The one who did the prayer is a minister. I think RP wanted to include him.

I was at the rally in Mountain View and there was no invocation or closing prayer. Has there been either at any other rally?

[Ed W]

...

[Phil M]

what? political gain? I don't see this at all! Ron Paul is a religious man and so much so that it spreads out into his campaign. Don't get so worked up about it. He doesn't make you pray with him.

If you don't want to pray then don't. I am sure there are others around you that do the same. In fact, I know I saw people around me that were not praying yesterday. It doesn't offend me that they don't pray, so why does it offend you when people DO pray?

I doesn't offend me. I'm just a little disappointed, as Paul has almost always relied totally upon secular argument to get his point across. I suppose he still does, much more so than the other candidates. If he wants to pray, fine.

[rajibo]

You can't be serious... :eek:

Why is everyone so afraid of people being different or expressing themselves?

It's Ron Paul. It's his campaign. If you want him to change something that drastic such as backing away from his religion, you are taking away everything that makes him what he is! Think about what you just said...seriously!

I have seriously thought about what I just said. If I hadn't seriously thought about it, I wouldn't have posted.

I don't want Ron Paul to change anything. I said I was okay with the first prayer. I just question the wisdom of having a second prayer immediately after the speech.

You here a rousing speech, you're excited to talk about it, you're feeling good, then you have to stop (and I believe most people would respectfully stop) and hear another prayer. I think even for some dedicated Christians that might be a buzzkill.

That's all I'm saying.

[jjschless]

... I stand quietly, bow my head, and think about how much Thomas Jefferson kicks ass. ;)

ROFL!!!!


Good Stuff!

[cujothekitten]

I don't mind him praying... he's a man of faith so it's pretty expected.

[UtahApocalypse]

This was Dr. Paul's hometown. I am sure he knows what the proper local feeling would be.

[Sean]

I don't think he ends many of his events with a prayer. Anyways it is a nonissue to me. If people are praying I will just wait patiently for it to be over. I may be nonreligious, but I respect a lot of the values that religions instill in people.

[B964]

I am an atheist and it does not bother me at all.

[fedup100]

Rajibo wrote:
I understand he is a man of strong faith, but if you've never heard him before, and are not a Christian, it may end up doing more harm than good in getting those potential supporters.

Boy IMO, you have stepped in it now. I am so sick of these people ashamed of our Lord and savior.....this is the spirit of ant-Christ and I am going to stand up right in its face. Ron Paul should pray when and where and as often as he chooses and if it turns off a voter then good riddance.

[jj111]

First Amendment: Freedom of religion

Just a comparison, it seems most local Republican and NRA events start with a pledge of allegience, and you know that pledge invokes the name of God. I think a lot of Republicans are used to doing something in the name of God before an event.... Maybe I'm wrong. But it really is Ron Paul and his campaign's decision to make. And I think RP has proven himself to have overall good political judgement in other political areas. I think he's doing a good job balancing his own religious beliefs and a political campaign.

[DJ RP]

I respect ron paul for his positions and appreciate he can have his faith, even mention it in his arguments sometimes ("I believe we were given our rights by a creator") but I agree that outright praying at the beginning and end is too much, it should be private, half his audience may well be agnostic/atheist and politics and religion don't mix

[kwood4800]

I would consider myself a devout Christian but I usually find it uncomfortable when people on reality shows and such pray on TV because they are usually things like "Let me win" or "give me strenth so I can win" and I feel that casts a bad vibe towards Christians. The prayer at the Ron Paul rally, however, was nothing like that. The prayer was for safety for all in attendance, and for guidance for our nation. It was very pleased that it wasn't a "Make RP win" kind of thing. Just my two cents.

[rajibo]

Rajibo wrote:

Boy IMO, you have stepped in it now. I am so sick of these people ashamed of our Lord and savior.....this is the spirit of ant-Christ and I am going to stand up right in its face. Ron Paul should pray when and where and as often as he chooses and if it turns off a voter then good riddance.

Wow! I've been called a lot of thing in my day, but never the anti-Christ.

I'm going to go meditate on that.

http://www.logoi.com/pastimages/img/buddha_2.jpg
;)

Sorry I brought it up.

[JPFromTally]

Is this a government sponsored event? No? Then pray away.

[PatriotOne]

Personally, I hope the opening and closing prayer was the "exception to the rule" as opposed "to the rule". If this was my first exposure to RP, it might concern me. Even as an Atheist, I don't mind a person of faith, but the last thing I would want is a religious zealot running my country.

If I got to vote, one short prayer in the beginning, but let the uplifting "liberty" message be last impression that resonates with the rally attendee's, not religion....which I find to be the most unliberating and controlling tool ever devised by people in power :eek:

[rich34]

Think of it this way. If Ron Paul gets elected think about all the powerful people he's essentially going to run out of business. Them people ain't going down without a fight. I know there's many of people that don't believe in God and that's fine, but stop to think for a second that if you did, like Ron Paul does, wouldn't you want God on your side?

And I know some will say he shouldn't have done it twice, but it could have been his brother's idea. In most church's I've been to it's a common practice to pray before and after church/events.

[B964]

Is this a government sponsored event? No? Then pray away.


You got that right! It does me no harm, I enjoy hearing everyones opinion, even more so if i don't agree with them. How else would you ever learn anything new? If I did not want to hear someone talk of Ron Paul I would never have found a new hope for us all.

[Razmear]

The closing prayer by his brother was a prayer to keep Ron safe in his travels, and I think it was a good one.
btw, I'm a Pagan and it didn't bother me at all.

eb

[stevedasbach]

In SC, there was one at the beginning, but not the end. I think that's the usual pattern.

[Kuldebar]

There is no political advantage worth having if it requires us to continue subscribing to the same concepts of anti-individualism and political correctness.

It's time for people to start understanding what freedom means and requires: tolerance and responsibility.

Hiding your nature or beliefs in order to "impress or persuade" someone is dishonest and manipulative.

How about we all wake up and just take freedom for what is and stop trying to play by the rules of the game we are trying to abolish?

[LibertyEagle]

I was okay with the one before the rally, but when everybody is getting up to leave and have to stop for another one, that's a bit much.

He is the one running for President. All I want him to do is to be himself and tell everyone what his principles are and what he will do as President.

He doesn't force anyone to pray, nor does he make references to God to gain political favor. This is who he is, folks.

I for one will take the whole package, just like he is.

[glts]

I am sooooo tired of political correctness. If Ron Paul wants to pray, bow down, do a hail Mary let him. People shake off the shackles, broaden you mind, live and let live!!!!

[OURPLAN]

If he wants to pray, let him pray. At least he's not being filmed in some church choir like Hilary, & Romeny, singing, and saying PRAISE THE LORD, playing it up and stuff.

[axiomata]

No one's saying he should back away from his religion. I have always respected him for being private about his religion and not using it for political gain, but that is what this looks like. Not a good move for a guy who gets 30-40% of his support from atheists and agnostics, as shown by a poll on this forum.

Let's do a little math and think this through please. The most recent study in the US found that a little less than 15% of US citizens consider themselves atheists or agnostics while over 75% of the population is Christian.

Both as far as his personal integrity as well as political implications goes, what should Ron Paul do? Should he continue doing what he wants to do, as a self-identified Christian. Or should he bow to the will of 40% atheists and agnostics (still a minority ... and probably a much smaller percentage that are even offended in the first place) on a message board of die-hard supporters?

Or should he stay true to himself and continue to lead prayers at his rallies when he sees fit. Nevermind the added political bonus of the fact that he will need the Christian vote to even have a chance of winning the primary. What will the 75% think when a candidate bows to the will of 40% at a message board somewhere, compromising his own values, because they are hostile to prayer in public? Who is he hurting? Tell me that. And then tell me since when did freedom of speech not apply to religious speech and how you can rectify that with your libertarian values.

[Kuldebar]

Let's do a little math and think this through please. The most recent study in the US found that a little less than 15% of US citizens consider themselves atheists or agnostics while over 75% of the population is Christian.

Both as far as his personal integrity as well as political implications goes, what should Ron Paul do? Should he continue doing what he wants to do, as a self-identified Christian. Or should he bow to the will of 40% atheists and agnostics (still a minority ... and probably a much smaller percentage that are even offended in the first place) on a message board of die-hard supporters?

Or should he stay true to himself and continue to lead prayers at his rallies when he sees fit. Nevermind the added political bonus of the fact that he will need the Christian vote to even have a chance of winning the primary. What will the 75% think when a candidate bows to the will of 40% at a message board somewhere, compromising his own values, because they are hostile to prayer in public? Who is he hurting? Tell me that. And then tell me since when did freedom of speech not apply to religious speech and how you can rectify that with your libertarian values.

Good points. I just think it is a matter of integrity.

Posturing in order to get a "vote" is part of the very cancer we are attempting to eliminate from the body politic. Don't we get enough political posturing from all those other chameleons running for office? Do we really want our man to conform to their rules and follow their example?

This is no less than a revolution of the mind. Americans will simply have to come to where we are, we can not go back to where they are; doing so would destroy the very momentum we seek to maintain.

I don't want a processed Ron Paul, I want a real Ron Paul.

[Duckman]

I'm another atheist who supports RP and I've commented on this and previous Christianity-based controversies. This topic comes up only slightly less often than 9/11 truthers. :D

Ron Paul is obviously a man of faith... BUT, he bases his philosophy around the secular enlightenment ideas of personal liberty, with a little bit of god thrown in here and there (for instance when talking of the Christian "Just War" philosophy). He only mentions Christians philosophy when it is indisputably just and decent, and not in any way polarizing to secular people (compare to some religious people who browbeat against homosexuality, premarital sex, or other "sins" in the name of Christianity). Plus, Ron Paul is the only candidate who is 100% guaranteed to not pursue a rapture-oriented foreign policy. For that, I'd practically support a faith healer for president. (Well, maybe not).

Ron is a man of faith. Let him have his faith. He will respect your lack of faith, I am sure. Such is the genius of the freedom philosophy.

[LibertyEagle]

This topic comes up only slightly less often than 9/11 truthers. :D



Except the former (his Christianity) is something he actually believes.

[Kuldebar]

I'm another atheist who supports RP and I've commented on this and previous Christianity-based controversies. This topic comes up only slightly less often than 9/11 truthers. :D

Ron Paul is obviously a man of faith... BUT, he bases his philosophy around the secular enlightenment ideas of personal liberty, with a little bit of god thrown in here and there (for instance when talking of the Christian "Just War" philosophy). He only mentions Christians philosophy when it is indisputably just and decent, and not in any way polarizing to secular people (compare to some religious people who browbeat against homosexuality, premarital sex, or other "sins" in the name of Christianity). Plus, Ron Paul is the only candidate who is 100% guaranteed to not pursue a rapture-oriented foreign policy. For that, I'd practically support a faith healer for president. (Well, maybe not).

Ron is a man of faith. Let him have his faith. He will respect your lack of faith, I am sure. Such is the genius of the freedom philosophy.



/agree


Many people forget that religion is actually philosophy, in fact, I'd say a person's personal philosophy is their religion. It's the operating system of our lives. Even some people that don't understand themselves very well, have some world view they rely on to interpret the universe around them.

To some such an assertion may demean religion (or philosophy) but it is very much true.

Someone who has a very narrow and probably inaccurate definition of what philosophy means may object, but philosophy and religion aren't quite so easily bottled up.

--------------------------------------------------------
In order for a war to be just, three things are necessary. First, the authority of the sovereign. Secondly, a just cause. Thirdly, a rightful intention.
Saint Thomas Aquinas

[mesler]

Pot-smoking, single, atheist libertarians simply don't stand a chance. Ron Paul's faith, his pro-life position, his age and family history make him quite electable. Unless he forces you to pray I would not sweat it. This is coming from someone who is not a religious person.