PennCustom4RP
08-03-2007, 10:07 PM
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0708/03/ldt.01.html
CNN.com - Transcripts
Lou Dobbs Transcript. Some good bits in here
DOBBS: Joining me now, three of the best political analysts in the country: Republican strategist, former White House political director Ed Rollins; Michael Goodwin, Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist, "New York Daily News"; James Taranto, editor, OpinionJournal.com. Thank you all for being here.
Ed, let me ask you first of all, this -- calling Barack Obama naive and unsophisticated on the issue of foreign policy just because he rules out the use of nuclear weapons, says he'll talk with foreign leaders.
ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Because he is naive and inexperienced.
DOBBS: I thought I'd give you that opportunity to -- defend him here, Michael.
MICHAEL GOODWIN, COLUMNIST, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Well...
DOBBS: ... take him a little on this?
ROLLINS: I think the bottom line is this guy's run a great campaign up to this point in time, and what often happens, as you get further into the battle, you start saying things that you don't know very much about. And he clearly has shown some real vulnerability here and at a point in time...
DOBBS: You've got to defend him here, Michael. Come on.
GOODWIN: It's going to be hard.
(CROSSTALK)
GOODWIN: I'll tell you what I think. I think -- I think he panicked. And I think what happens is that...
DOBBS: Oh, good. Now we can add panicked to naive, unsophisticated.
GOODWIN: Well, I think he...
ROLLINS: ... both occasions (ph).
GOODWIN: That's right. He didn't look good in that debate. And I think -- I thought he came out of that debate doing well, trying to spin his answer on the question of meeting with the foreign leaders.
But in this one, he's thinking out loud, stumbles into the nuke question, wants to correct himself. And I think Hillary just kind of zings him.
DOBBS: Here's what I don't understand, James Taranto. Here's a man that, as Ed said, he was on an extraordinary campaign. He's come out of nowhere to run well behind Senator Clinton, the clear, indisputed -- indisputable frontrunner.
But to not have advisors counseling him, what happened -- what happens to a campaign that that would occur?
JAMES TARANTO, OPINIONJOURNAL.COM: I think he's just lazy. I think he hasn't thought this stuff through. I think this would be scary if it weren't so hilarious. I mean, he wants to appease our enemies. He wants to invade our allies. He wants to swear off the use of nuclear weapons.
And don't forget: he said he would be willing to tolerate genocide in Iraq. The only saving grace is he didn't promise to use nuclear weapons.
DOBBS: Well, when you said he suggested he would use genocide. Would you like to give a little greater amplification to that?
TARANTO: Yes, he said he was asked by the Associated Press a couple of weeks ago if he thought that preventing genocide was a sufficient reason to keep people in Iraq. And he said no. He said...
DOBBS: That's quite a different statement than what you just suggested.
TARANTO: He said -- I mean...
DOBBS: I understand, but...
TARANTO: How is that different from saying that genocide is a price worth paying for American retreat. I think that's appropriately fair reformulation of what he said.
DOBBS: Let's go to another reformulation. That is the reformulation of public opinion. Let me just take a look at the public opinion toll. This may be my favorite opinion poll in some time: the UPI/Zogby interactive poll, if we've got that. I'd like to put that up.
President Bush with an approval rating in terms of the handling of the Iraq war, 24 percent; Congress 3 percent. That's pretty impressive. Don't you think?
ROLLINS: That's pretty high. Was there a third choice?
Interactive polls are not quite as accurate. Not -- I think there's way too...
DOBBS: This might be very accurate.
ROLLINS: It could be. But these -- these are not as scientific as others. There's way too many polls.
And the bottom line is the president has done a terrible job of leading this country and communicating effectively what his goals are. Worse than that, the Congress is absolutely -- you're seeing debacle after debacle.
DOBBS: Let's talk about the debacle last night. I mean, ringing down the gavel on a 215-213 vote and declaring the measure defeated and Congressman McNulty and Speaker Pelosi crying crocodile tears but saying, "I'm sorry, but we do have to press on."
GOODWIN: Again, I think we're sort of into the later innings. What you think are the weaknesses and the flaws. When the Democrats took Congress, there were all these hopes. Here we are, really just seven months later.
DOBBS: We into a banana republic, for crying out loud.
GOODWIN: Exactly. Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, as you've said many times on this show, are disasters as leaders. I mean, you've got people running all over the place.
DOBBS: Hope you don't mind my saying this, James, but the fact is, I didn't think much of 110th Congress -- 109th Congress, and I don't think much of the 110th. It doesn't seem to matter whether it's a Republican or a Democrat leading that House or that Senate. It's -- this is just a preposterous way to conduct the people's business.
TARANTO: Yes. Or the 108th Congress or the 107th. I mean, the Republicans had one or two good terms before things fell apart, but the Democrats have fallen apart in record time.
ROLLINS: Pardon me. He had severe partisanship. This is an issue. From my perspective, I like the issue of the campaign strategist. I'm going to go -- I would go to the public if I had a candidate next -- next fall and talk about the Democrats basically doing everything possible to make sure that the illegal immigrants got welfare. And that would be my campaign.
DOBBS: They just gave them the opportunity and the issue.
ROLLINS: And they had to cheat to get it to that point. But that is a big, big issue.
DOBBS: I think there's another issue and I think that's -- this Congress is going to hear from the American people. They think that they're going to be able to move these little pieces along. It's going to be interesting to see the reaction of the public.
DOBBS: Speaking of straight talk, Lou, thank you very much. We're going to be talking about Senator John McCain, whether he's flip-flopping on the issue of illegal immigration and border security.
We'll have that and a lot more with our panel. We'll continue here in just a moment. Stay with us.
DOBBS: Well, we talked about Barack Obama and his critics. Let's talk about Senator John McCain and his critics, still. Now accusing the flip-flopping on illegal immigration and border security. What's going on?
TARANTO: Well, I guess I'll defend McCain here. I'm not with the other guys attacking him. Look, politics is the art of impossible. Clearly, he wasn't going to get it through...
(CROSSTALK)
TARANTO: He wasn't going to get a bill through with amnesty.
DOBBS: No, he sure wasn't.
TARANTO: But one can reasonably say let's do what we can do.
DOBBS: And the polls over the course of the past year -- I mean, he has -- he has -- this man has talked himself into representing all of the interests that are inimical to middle class America and the voting public.
GOODWIN: Well, look, he took a very strong position on immigration. He didn't just support the bill. He was one of the co- authors.
DOBBS: He and Kennedy.
GOODWIN: Yes, that's right. And he was out there all the time.
DOBBS: Bush kind of pushed him aside (ph).
GOODWIN: Remember the debates saying how this is a principle, this is the most important thing we can do. And it backfired. In the primaries, in particular...
DOBBS: And telling workers that they would take those $50 an hour jobs. That was an unbelievable.
GOODWIN: And his numbers in the Republican primaries consistently tanked.
DOBBS: Right.
GOODWIN: And I think in this case, this is more about immigration than it is the war in the primaries.
ROLLINS: John needs a lobotomy, and the word "immigration" needs to get out of his head. He's lost any leadership role in that front.
And the sad part is he's losing his role as a significant player. This campaign is over. He's going to go into debt. It's almost that pathetic at this point in time. And I think, to a certain extent, he ought to defend the war, which he really believes in and help our troops as much as he can. And that could be his legacy.
DOBBS: And the other Republicans in this race: Giuliani, Romney, Thompson? Who isn't in this race? What are their prospects?
TARANTO: Well, I think that Giuliani still looks very good. He's fallen a bit in the polls. If Thompson gets into the race, he could give him a run for his money. We'll see.
DOBBS: I guess the question there would be why.
GOODWIN: Yes, I mean, I don't know why Thompson's waiting. I mean, I guess -- I have a sense he's going to -- he's going to start to decline the minute he announces.
But I think what's interesting, Lou, is you go back to the beginning of the year. We're pretty close to where we were when this year started, which is Hillary Clinton has a big lead now in the Democrats.
DOBBS: Huge lead.
GOODWIN: And Giuliani has a nine-point lead, when you average all the polls, among the Republicans. So we're sort of back to the basics with the two races.
ROLLINS: You're going to have a three-way race. And I think McCain is gone. I think -- I think Romney is running a classic New Hampshire-Iowa. And he's got his own resources, so you can't count him out. Thompson, obviously, is filling a conservative base at this point in time, or at least -- conservative candidate. And Giuliani is a very unpredictable and a very effective candidate.
DOBBS: Well, speaking of unpredictable, as the independent on the panel, let me just say, Republicans and the Democrats have an interesting group of folks. Hillary Clinton as far as you said, out in front. Who knows who's going to prevail on the Republicans.
But there's a fellow out there who might create a little storm yet. He calls himself an independent. We'll find out if he is. And Michael Bloomberg. What do you think?
GOODWIN: He's got the money. And I think...
DOBBS: He's got that part.
GOODWIN: That's the only reason you can really consider him, is that if he's going to spend $1 billion, as he has told friends of his here in New York, he will spend $1 billion of his own money, which he won't even notice, he could make himself a player.
DOBBS: He will or he would?
GOODWIN: If he runs, he will. And I think he will run if he sees any opening whatsoever.
TARANTO: I'm guessing that he won't run. It's hard for me to say where there's grounds for Bloomberg outside of New York.
ROLLINS: Thirty-five percent of American, which is a plurality of voters today, consider themselves independent, and they're longing for an alternative to the two parties. Democrats are second; Republicans are a distant third.
I think if Bloomberg gets in and runs an effective campaign, there will be a lot of people that are going to vote for him.
DOBBS: And they're hoping and praying, I believe, at this point.
Ed, thank you very much.
Michael, thank you.
James, thank you very much.
Still ahead, we'll have the results of our poll. We'll be right back. Stay with us.
CNN.com - Transcripts
Lou Dobbs Transcript. Some good bits in here
DOBBS: Joining me now, three of the best political analysts in the country: Republican strategist, former White House political director Ed Rollins; Michael Goodwin, Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist, "New York Daily News"; James Taranto, editor, OpinionJournal.com. Thank you all for being here.
Ed, let me ask you first of all, this -- calling Barack Obama naive and unsophisticated on the issue of foreign policy just because he rules out the use of nuclear weapons, says he'll talk with foreign leaders.
ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Because he is naive and inexperienced.
DOBBS: I thought I'd give you that opportunity to -- defend him here, Michael.
MICHAEL GOODWIN, COLUMNIST, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Well...
DOBBS: ... take him a little on this?
ROLLINS: I think the bottom line is this guy's run a great campaign up to this point in time, and what often happens, as you get further into the battle, you start saying things that you don't know very much about. And he clearly has shown some real vulnerability here and at a point in time...
DOBBS: You've got to defend him here, Michael. Come on.
GOODWIN: It's going to be hard.
(CROSSTALK)
GOODWIN: I'll tell you what I think. I think -- I think he panicked. And I think what happens is that...
DOBBS: Oh, good. Now we can add panicked to naive, unsophisticated.
GOODWIN: Well, I think he...
ROLLINS: ... both occasions (ph).
GOODWIN: That's right. He didn't look good in that debate. And I think -- I thought he came out of that debate doing well, trying to spin his answer on the question of meeting with the foreign leaders.
But in this one, he's thinking out loud, stumbles into the nuke question, wants to correct himself. And I think Hillary just kind of zings him.
DOBBS: Here's what I don't understand, James Taranto. Here's a man that, as Ed said, he was on an extraordinary campaign. He's come out of nowhere to run well behind Senator Clinton, the clear, indisputed -- indisputable frontrunner.
But to not have advisors counseling him, what happened -- what happens to a campaign that that would occur?
JAMES TARANTO, OPINIONJOURNAL.COM: I think he's just lazy. I think he hasn't thought this stuff through. I think this would be scary if it weren't so hilarious. I mean, he wants to appease our enemies. He wants to invade our allies. He wants to swear off the use of nuclear weapons.
And don't forget: he said he would be willing to tolerate genocide in Iraq. The only saving grace is he didn't promise to use nuclear weapons.
DOBBS: Well, when you said he suggested he would use genocide. Would you like to give a little greater amplification to that?
TARANTO: Yes, he said he was asked by the Associated Press a couple of weeks ago if he thought that preventing genocide was a sufficient reason to keep people in Iraq. And he said no. He said...
DOBBS: That's quite a different statement than what you just suggested.
TARANTO: He said -- I mean...
DOBBS: I understand, but...
TARANTO: How is that different from saying that genocide is a price worth paying for American retreat. I think that's appropriately fair reformulation of what he said.
DOBBS: Let's go to another reformulation. That is the reformulation of public opinion. Let me just take a look at the public opinion toll. This may be my favorite opinion poll in some time: the UPI/Zogby interactive poll, if we've got that. I'd like to put that up.
President Bush with an approval rating in terms of the handling of the Iraq war, 24 percent; Congress 3 percent. That's pretty impressive. Don't you think?
ROLLINS: That's pretty high. Was there a third choice?
Interactive polls are not quite as accurate. Not -- I think there's way too...
DOBBS: This might be very accurate.
ROLLINS: It could be. But these -- these are not as scientific as others. There's way too many polls.
And the bottom line is the president has done a terrible job of leading this country and communicating effectively what his goals are. Worse than that, the Congress is absolutely -- you're seeing debacle after debacle.
DOBBS: Let's talk about the debacle last night. I mean, ringing down the gavel on a 215-213 vote and declaring the measure defeated and Congressman McNulty and Speaker Pelosi crying crocodile tears but saying, "I'm sorry, but we do have to press on."
GOODWIN: Again, I think we're sort of into the later innings. What you think are the weaknesses and the flaws. When the Democrats took Congress, there were all these hopes. Here we are, really just seven months later.
DOBBS: We into a banana republic, for crying out loud.
GOODWIN: Exactly. Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, as you've said many times on this show, are disasters as leaders. I mean, you've got people running all over the place.
DOBBS: Hope you don't mind my saying this, James, but the fact is, I didn't think much of 110th Congress -- 109th Congress, and I don't think much of the 110th. It doesn't seem to matter whether it's a Republican or a Democrat leading that House or that Senate. It's -- this is just a preposterous way to conduct the people's business.
TARANTO: Yes. Or the 108th Congress or the 107th. I mean, the Republicans had one or two good terms before things fell apart, but the Democrats have fallen apart in record time.
ROLLINS: Pardon me. He had severe partisanship. This is an issue. From my perspective, I like the issue of the campaign strategist. I'm going to go -- I would go to the public if I had a candidate next -- next fall and talk about the Democrats basically doing everything possible to make sure that the illegal immigrants got welfare. And that would be my campaign.
DOBBS: They just gave them the opportunity and the issue.
ROLLINS: And they had to cheat to get it to that point. But that is a big, big issue.
DOBBS: I think there's another issue and I think that's -- this Congress is going to hear from the American people. They think that they're going to be able to move these little pieces along. It's going to be interesting to see the reaction of the public.
DOBBS: Speaking of straight talk, Lou, thank you very much. We're going to be talking about Senator John McCain, whether he's flip-flopping on the issue of illegal immigration and border security.
We'll have that and a lot more with our panel. We'll continue here in just a moment. Stay with us.
DOBBS: Well, we talked about Barack Obama and his critics. Let's talk about Senator John McCain and his critics, still. Now accusing the flip-flopping on illegal immigration and border security. What's going on?
TARANTO: Well, I guess I'll defend McCain here. I'm not with the other guys attacking him. Look, politics is the art of impossible. Clearly, he wasn't going to get it through...
(CROSSTALK)
TARANTO: He wasn't going to get a bill through with amnesty.
DOBBS: No, he sure wasn't.
TARANTO: But one can reasonably say let's do what we can do.
DOBBS: And the polls over the course of the past year -- I mean, he has -- he has -- this man has talked himself into representing all of the interests that are inimical to middle class America and the voting public.
GOODWIN: Well, look, he took a very strong position on immigration. He didn't just support the bill. He was one of the co- authors.
DOBBS: He and Kennedy.
GOODWIN: Yes, that's right. And he was out there all the time.
DOBBS: Bush kind of pushed him aside (ph).
GOODWIN: Remember the debates saying how this is a principle, this is the most important thing we can do. And it backfired. In the primaries, in particular...
DOBBS: And telling workers that they would take those $50 an hour jobs. That was an unbelievable.
GOODWIN: And his numbers in the Republican primaries consistently tanked.
DOBBS: Right.
GOODWIN: And I think in this case, this is more about immigration than it is the war in the primaries.
ROLLINS: John needs a lobotomy, and the word "immigration" needs to get out of his head. He's lost any leadership role in that front.
And the sad part is he's losing his role as a significant player. This campaign is over. He's going to go into debt. It's almost that pathetic at this point in time. And I think, to a certain extent, he ought to defend the war, which he really believes in and help our troops as much as he can. And that could be his legacy.
DOBBS: And the other Republicans in this race: Giuliani, Romney, Thompson? Who isn't in this race? What are their prospects?
TARANTO: Well, I think that Giuliani still looks very good. He's fallen a bit in the polls. If Thompson gets into the race, he could give him a run for his money. We'll see.
DOBBS: I guess the question there would be why.
GOODWIN: Yes, I mean, I don't know why Thompson's waiting. I mean, I guess -- I have a sense he's going to -- he's going to start to decline the minute he announces.
But I think what's interesting, Lou, is you go back to the beginning of the year. We're pretty close to where we were when this year started, which is Hillary Clinton has a big lead now in the Democrats.
DOBBS: Huge lead.
GOODWIN: And Giuliani has a nine-point lead, when you average all the polls, among the Republicans. So we're sort of back to the basics with the two races.
ROLLINS: You're going to have a three-way race. And I think McCain is gone. I think -- I think Romney is running a classic New Hampshire-Iowa. And he's got his own resources, so you can't count him out. Thompson, obviously, is filling a conservative base at this point in time, or at least -- conservative candidate. And Giuliani is a very unpredictable and a very effective candidate.
DOBBS: Well, speaking of unpredictable, as the independent on the panel, let me just say, Republicans and the Democrats have an interesting group of folks. Hillary Clinton as far as you said, out in front. Who knows who's going to prevail on the Republicans.
But there's a fellow out there who might create a little storm yet. He calls himself an independent. We'll find out if he is. And Michael Bloomberg. What do you think?
GOODWIN: He's got the money. And I think...
DOBBS: He's got that part.
GOODWIN: That's the only reason you can really consider him, is that if he's going to spend $1 billion, as he has told friends of his here in New York, he will spend $1 billion of his own money, which he won't even notice, he could make himself a player.
DOBBS: He will or he would?
GOODWIN: If he runs, he will. And I think he will run if he sees any opening whatsoever.
TARANTO: I'm guessing that he won't run. It's hard for me to say where there's grounds for Bloomberg outside of New York.
ROLLINS: Thirty-five percent of American, which is a plurality of voters today, consider themselves independent, and they're longing for an alternative to the two parties. Democrats are second; Republicans are a distant third.
I think if Bloomberg gets in and runs an effective campaign, there will be a lot of people that are going to vote for him.
DOBBS: And they're hoping and praying, I believe, at this point.
Ed, thank you very much.
Michael, thank you.
James, thank you very much.
Still ahead, we'll have the results of our poll. We'll be right back. Stay with us.