My feelings on this race

[pinkmandy]

I just posted this on a blog and usually post something similar almost daily. So these are my thoughts and are others determined to do the same? Are you letting repubs know this is the way it is going to be?


Romney wins, repubs lose. No candidate, except Paul, will garner the vote of the Paul supporters. The repubs can't afford to lose our vote (they need us to beat the dems, like it or not) but we promise they will lose EVERY election until a pro-Constitution, small govt, pro-peace, fiscally responsibile, MORAL, conservative is nominated. Don't count on us to suck it up and vote the party line ever again. We're done and it feels GREAT.

Do everyday Repub voters realize we have the numbers and power to cripple every election? Should they find out?

[werdd]

they do, why do you think they ask him if heil run 3rd party everyday.

[JenaS62]

I just had a very unpleasant conversation with my mother this morning. Although she loves RP and had every intention of voting for him - she is afraid of McCain winning the republican nomination and therefore allowing Clinton to win the general election. So she says that she is voting for Romney here in Florida because she does not want McCain to win (Romney and
McCain are tied here). She thinks that if Romney get the GOP nomination - more people will come out to vote against Hillary. How do we combat this mentality?

[micahnelson]

I just had a very unpleasant conversation with my mother this morning. Although she loves RP and had every intention of voting for him - she is afraid of McCain winning the republican nomination and therefore allowing Clinton to win the general election. So she says that she is voting for Romney here in Florida because she does not want McCain to win (Romney and
McCain are tied here). She thinks that if Romney get the GOP nomination - more people will come out to vote against Hillary. How do we combat this mentality?

If you don't vote for someone who represents you, you will never be represented.

If she ever complains in the future about the government, remind her that she did her part to help it along.

I mean, shes your mom- but almost every woman is somebody's mom. Tell her she raised you well enough that you know not to throw away your vote on a political game.

[WilliamC]

It may be that things will have to get worse before they can get better.

It may be that the Republican's will have to loose the White House before they re-commit to their principles.

It may be that Ron Paul's Revolution will have more of an impact on the 2010 and 2012 elections than on the 2008 elections.

Whatever happens, don't go back to sleep.

[JenaS62]

You're right of course. As much as I cannot stand the thought of Hillary being the POTUS - I want the GOP to get the message. What a horrible time it is for the American people.

[DAFTEK]

If Ron Paul drops out we need to drop the Republican party and vote for Obama, as much as i hate to say it if that becomes the case i personally would hate to see McCrackhead or Hitlary in power then Obama, cant be any worse. Write in will not help anyone as i used to think. The GOP deserves to lose this race for their blackout and dirty tricks on Ron Paul. If you think I'm wrong why please tell me why.....

[j0ew00ds]

PinkMandy,
Among the people on this forum, you're correct. We're not likely to vote for anyone else. However, i can't think that's true among the majority of the "ordinary" people that have voted for RP.

[Shii]

I just had a very unpleasant conversation with my mother this morning. Although she loves RP and had every intention of voting for him - she is afraid of McCain winning the republican nomination and therefore allowing Clinton to win the general election. So she says that she is voting for Romney here in Florida because she does not want McCain to win (Romney and
McCain are tied here). She thinks that if Romney get the GOP nomination - more people will come out to vote against Hillary. How do we combat this mentality?

Tell her the truth: McCain has more of a chance of winning over Hillary. Trust me, I am reading a lot of liberal blogs (since I'm a liberal) and a huge amount of the Democratic base hates Hillary. If the election were Hillary vs. McCain, they would write in Ralph Nader and be satisfied with a McCain Presidential victory... but if it were Romney they would vote for Hillary because Romney is the ultimate sleaze.

Here's a poll that clearly demonstrates McCain would beat Hillary, I'm not sure if you can see the results without registering but basically that's what it says

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2746691

[literatim]

I just had a very unpleasant conversation with my mother this morning. Although she loves RP and had every intention of voting for him - she is afraid of McCain winning the republican nomination and therefore allowing Clinton to win the general election. So she says that she is voting for Romney here in Florida because she does not want McCain to win (Romney and
McCain are tied here). She thinks that if Romney get the GOP nomination - more people will come out to vote against Hillary. How do we combat this mentality?

Inform her that we (at least 10% of the GOP base) won't vote for Romney, so he will lose the general election anyway. Not to mention much of the Christian base the general election will lose. Remember, Dr. Dobson threatened to move away from the GOP if a pro-choice candidate (including Romney he said) becomes the nominee.

[Original_Intent]

It may be that things will have to get worse before they can get better.

It may be that the Republican's will have to loose the White House before they re-commit to their principles.

It may be that Ron Paul's Revolution will have more of an impact on the 2010 and 2012 elections than on the 2008 elections.

Whatever happens, don't go back to sleep.

Ya know your post just made me realize something.

If, God forbid, Ron Paul is not elected, we would have a huge opportunity to take our government back in 2010. If we keep working together that gives us two years to work on getting a majority elected in the House. Non-presidential elections have lousy turnout and I think that we could quietly still an election while America sleeps.

That would give us two years before the next election of complete control of the nation's purse strings. 2010 is a huge opportunity, no, not nearly as glamorous as a presidential win, but with a lot more actual power.

All we need is ~220 more "Dr. Noes".

[Midnight77]

A Hillary Presidency is a sacrifice I'm willing to make to teach the Republican Party that they need to change their ways. Every Ron Paul supporter should write Paul in at the General Election to make a statement. This will unquestionably be reported on the News if we can allow Paul to achieve the status of the man with the most write-in votes in a General Election in our nation's history.

[WilliamC]

Ya know your post just made me realize something.

If, God forbid, Ron Paul is not elected, we would have a huge opportunity to take our government back in 2010. If we keep working together that gives us two years to work on getting a majority elected in the House. Non-presidential elections have lousy turnout and I think that we could quietly still an election while America sleeps.

That would give us two years before the next election of complete control of the nation's purse strings. 2010 is a huge opportunity, no, not nearly as glamorous as a presidential win, but with a lot more actual power.

All we need is ~220 more "Dr. Noes".

Work as hard as we can to get Ron Paul nominated, but failing that work just as hard to support him and like-minded individuals in Congress between now and 2010.

This is how the rEVOLution grows...

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

I just had a very unpleasant conversation with my mother this morning. Although she loves RP and had every intention of voting for him - she is afraid of McCain winning the republican nomination and therefore allowing Clinton to win the general election. So she says that she is voting for Romney here in Florida because she does not want McCain to win (Romney and
McCain are tied here).

Well Ron isn't really competing in FL (it's winner take all), and McWarmonger must be stopped, so what she is doing makes sense, in terms of the GOP primary.

In terms of the general, I think Ron will run independent. So let's see what happens, and encourage Dr Paul to do it.

[NoPants]

I just had a very unpleasant conversation with my mother this morning. Although she loves RP and had every intention of voting for him - she is afraid of McCain winning the republican nomination and therefore allowing Clinton to win the general election. So she says that she is voting for Romney here in Florida because she does not want McCain to win (Romney and
McCain are tied here). She thinks that if Romney get the GOP nomination - more people will come out to vote against Hillary. How do we combat this mentality?

She doesn't need to worry about it. Let here know that Romney has plenty of support and her single vote will make a much bigger difference for Paul than Romney. Ask her if she would want either of them to be her President, Romney or Hillary. If she doesn't want them she needs to vote for Paul if that's what she believes in.

[virgil47]

Listen to your mother. She is the voice of experience. Do NOT listen to those folks on this board that would rather sacrifice our country than support someone they feel is less than perfect. If Ron Paul does not win the nomination do not follow these folks and throw a temper tantrum. When I was a youngster doing what they advocate was called "cutting off your nose to spite your face". If you're not sure what that means ask your mother she knows.

[pinkmandy]

Listen to your mother. She is the voice of experience. Do NOT listen to those folks on this board that would rather sacrifice our country than support someone they feel is less than perfect. If Ron Paul does not win the nomination do not follow these folks and throw a temper tantrum. When I was a youngster doing what they advocate was called "cutting off your nose to spite your face". If you're not sure what that means ask your mother she knows.

Yes, listen to your mother. That way NOTHING EVER CHANGES. Forget voting your conscience, vote status quo instead. That's the way to revolutionize our country! I do not know a single RP supporter who would EVER suggest such a thing. Not a real one anyway.

[ronpaulyourmom]

There isn't enough of a difference between Romney, McCain, Hillary or Obama to make strategic voting amount to more than a hill of beans. All of them would maintain or increase spending (based on the promises they've made), none of them have the courage to stand up firmly against our flawed foreign policy, and none of them give a damn about our civil liberties.

The real waste of a vote is for anybody other than Ron Paul. And by god if a 72-year old man is going out there every day, sunup to sundown, and putting it all on the line against an establishment that continues to push him into the tarpits, I'll be damned if I betray his efforts by casting a vote for Romney (who is my 2nd pick but still horrible by comparison).

Tell these things to your mother, tell her there's millions of us who feel this way, and tell her that we need her help.

www.ronpaulwhitehouse.com

[Maltheus]

I just had a very unpleasant conversation with my mother this morning. Although she loves RP and had every intention of voting for him - she is afraid of McCain winning the republican nomination and therefore allowing Clinton to win the general election. So she says that she is voting for Romney here in Florida because she does not want McCain to win (Romney and
McCain are tied here). She thinks that if Romney get the GOP nomination - more people will come out to vote against Hillary. How do we combat this mentality?

I think after the last debate, it all but certain that Ron Paul is going to run third party. In an election year where the democrats were heavily favored to win in any case, having close to 10% of the Republican party voting for Paul means that the next president will either be the democratic nominee or Ron Paul. There's no way to avoid that. So tell you Mom that she needs to make sure he wins the nomination to prevent it. It should be simply in theory.

Honestly, this should have been our strategy back in December given our fundraising. It's a little dirty to make threats I suppose, but we're just stating the obvious. My dream is that Hillary gets the dem nom and McCain/Lieberman gets the gop nom. That's our best shot at taking this election, IMO. The conservative base will rally against Hillary but we can frustrate them into not support for McCain since they never liked him anyway, and with a democrat as his running mate (especially at McCain's age), they'd have no choice but to look into Paul.

[danda]

If Paul doesn't get the nomination, write him in. simple.

[jarofclay]

If you don't vote for someone who represents you, you will never be represented.

If she ever complains in the future about the government, remind her that she did her part to help it along.

I mean, shes your mom- but almost every woman is somebody's mom. Tell her she raised you well enough that you know not to throw away your vote on a political game.


+10

[jarofclay]

If Ron Paul drops out we need to drop the Republican party and vote for Obama, as much as i hate to say it if that becomes the case i personally would hate to see McCrackhead or Hitlary in power then Obama, cant be any worse. Write in will not help anyone as i used to think. The GOP deserves to lose this race for their blackout and dirty tricks on Ron Paul. If you think I'm wrong why please tell me why.....

For the same reason the OP was talking about her/his mom, don't throw your vote in fear. Vote for someone you believe in. If someone truly believes in Obama they need to open their ears a little more to listen to what his message implies.... total government control in your life. social engineering for health care.. kiss your income goodbye.

Tell everyone to vote for Ron Paul. He is catchin' on , I'm telling ya.

[virgil47]

McCain and Hillary are two sides of the same coin. I'm really beginning to doubt that the majority of RP supporters are truly for America. Most of you are advocating throwing a temper tantrum because you can't have your way. Hmmm, not a very mature perspective is it? So if I'm right you youngsters are saying if I can't have Ron Paul as my president then screw America it deserves what it gets. To me that is a very selfish and suicidal way of looking at life. Most of you seem to believe that politics are an exact science. I'm sorry to burst your bubble ... it's is about compromise and trying to do the best you can for the most people. Answer this question if you will. Would any of you support Ron Paul as a VP if he doesn't win the nomination? If not why?

[jarofclay]

Listen to your mother. She is the voice of experience. Do NOT listen to those folks on this board that would rather sacrifice our country than support someone they feel is less than perfect. If Ron Paul does not win the nomination do not follow these folks and throw a temper tantrum. When I was a youngster doing what they advocate was called "cutting off your nose to spite your face". If you're not sure what that means ask your mother she knows.

GOP Troll. Someone get out your ban stick.

[Cleaner44]

Ya know your post just made me realize something.

If, God forbid, Ron Paul is not elected, we would have a huge opportunity to take our government back in 2010. If we keep working together that gives us two years to work on getting a majority elected in the House. Non-presidential elections have lousy turnout and I think that we could quietly still an election while America sleeps.

That would give us two years before the next election of complete control of the nation's purse strings. 2010 is a huge opportunity, no, not nearly as glamorous as a presidential win, but with a lot more actual power.

All we need is ~220 more "Dr. Noes".

+220

[virgil47]

jarofclay, I believe it is you who is the TROLL. If you do not have an opinion and the ability to defend it then please roll over and go back to sleep!!!

[WilliamC]

Listen to your mother. She is the voice of experience. Do NOT listen to those folks on this board that would rather sacrifice our country than support someone they feel is less than perfect. If Ron Paul does not win the nomination do not follow these folks and throw a temper tantrum. When I was a youngster doing what they advocate was called "cutting off your nose to spite your face". If you're not sure what that means ask your mother she knows.

Why not listen to your own conscious instead?

Does yours tell you that voting for the lesser of two evils is better than voting for good?

[shadowhooch]

McCain and Hillary are two sides of the same coin. I'm really beginning to doubt that the majority of RP supporters are truly for America. Most of you are advocating throwing a temper tantrum because you can't have your way. Hmmm, not a very mature perspective is it? So if I'm right you youngsters are saying if I can't have Ron Paul as my president then screw America it deserves what it gets. To me that is a very selfish and suicidal way of looking at life. Most of you seem to believe that politics are an exact science. I'm sorry to burst your bubble ... it's is about compromise and trying to do the best you can for the most people. Answer this question if you will. Would any of you support Ron Paul as a VP if he doesn't win the nomination? If not why?

Romney is just as bad. All of the Republican candidates ARE JUST AS BAD. They WILL NOT get spending under control. They will not change anything. So why vote for them?

Compromise gets you the same you've always had. I don't see the point of perpetuating crap.

[pinkmandy]

GOP Troll. Someone get out your ban stick.



Ita.


Would any of you support Ron Paul as a VP if he doesn't win the nomination? If not why?


You? Not "us"? This is the first time I've called troll but honestly, I really don't know any true RP supporters who think it's okay to vote status quo. The supporters I know will write in Paul's name, not "compromise" on our revolution. Voting for the same thing guarantees we get the same thing. That's as anti-Paul as you can get.

[SeanEdwards]

If Ron Paul drops out we need to drop the Republican party and vote for Obama, as much as i hate to say it if that becomes the case i personally would hate to see McCrackhead or Hitlary in power then Obama, cant be any worse. Write in will not help anyone as i used to think. The GOP deserves to lose this race for their blackout and dirty tricks on Ron Paul. If you think I'm wrong why please tell me why.....

This is my thinking too. The idea of writing in Ron Paul is charming, but the idea of punishing the GOP is even more appealing. I mean, a write in candidate is not going to win. Rather than completely throw my vote away on a symbolic write in, I will use it to drive a stake through the heart of the GOP.

[WilliamC]

McCain and Hillary are two sides of the same coin. I'm really beginning to doubt that the majority of RP supporters are truly for America. Most of you are advocating throwing a temper tantrum because you can't have your way. Hmmm, not a very mature perspective is it? So if I'm right you youngsters are saying if I can't have Ron Paul as my president then screw America it deserves what it gets. To me that is a very selfish and suicidal way of looking at life. Most of you seem to believe that politics are an exact science. I'm sorry to burst your bubble ... it's is about compromise and trying to do the best you can for the most people. Answer this question if you will. Would any of you support Ron Paul as a VP if he doesn't win the nomination? If not why?

How is it a tantrum to vote for Ron Paul? In my perspective it is not very mature to vote for the lesser of two evils when you have a chance to vote for someone who's record shows he is good.

All this talking like your vote is going to cause America to get screwed is naive. It's corrupt politicians who do this.

[SeanEdwards]

Ita.



You? Not "us"? This is the first time I've called troll but honestly, I really don't know any true RP supporters who think it's okay to vote status quo. The supporters I know will write in Paul's name, not "compromise" on our revolution. Voting for the same thing guarantees we get the same thing. That's as anti-Paul as you can get.

//

[pinkmandy]

I would vote for a ticket that had Paul as VP.

Then I'd grab my rifle and start stalking the prez.

LMAO.

[LynnB]

I just had a very unpleasant conversation with my mother this morning. Although she loves RP and had every intention of voting for him - she is afraid of McCain winning the republican nomination and therefore allowing Clinton to win the general election. So she says that she is voting for Romney here in Florida because she does not want McCain to win (Romney and
McCain are tied here). She thinks that if Romney get the GOP nomination - more people will come out to vote against Hillary. How do we combat this mentality?

Show her this polling result : http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_clinton-230.html
Basically, Clinton wins, and by comparison, McCain and Clinton have almost even point spreads across the polls. But then, they are mirror images of each other.

[pinkmandy]

This is my thinking too. The idea of writing in Ron Paul is charming, but the idea of punishing the GOP is even more appealing. I mean, a write in candidate is not going to win. Rather than completely throw my vote away on a symbolic write in, I will use it to drive a stake through the heart of the GOP.

GOP will lose anyway imo. Whether we vote dem or 3rd party. I was disputing voting for ANOTHER GOP candidate if Paul doesn't get the nom. I'm all for teaching them a lesson but will take my chances w/3rd party or a write in. GOP will lose regardless.

[Original_Intent]

For those that would vote for Obama to "punish the GOP". How can it be a punishment if they don't know it? How will they see that a bunch of Ron Paul supporters voted for Obama? How will voting for Obama send any kind of message other than "the establishment won again"?

Staying home is no better. The only way to send a message is to write in Paul, if he isn't nominated. Then when there is 5% write in for Paul, and Obama wins by less than 5%, then and only then does the GOP get the message that they screwed themselves. Then and only then does the rest of America see that there are 5% of us that won't settle for the "lesser of two evils" bullshit.

If you vote Dem or stay at home, you are doing exactly what the opposition wants you to do.

[Mark37snj]

If Ron Paul drops out we need to drop the Republican party and vote for Obama, as much as i hate to say it if that becomes the case i personally would hate to see McCrackhead or Hitlary in power then Obama, cant be any worse. Write in will not help anyone as i used to think. The GOP deserves to lose this race for their blackout and dirty tricks on Ron Paul. If you think I'm wrong why please tell me why.....

I will absolutely not vote for any of the other canidates. I firmly believe in the Protest vote. Its an actual number that the GOP can see they lost and know what it cost them. Whoever is closest to Pauls position, so that leaves out the Democrats and the rest of the Republicans. But I expect Paul to be in it as long as we keep him in it and I know we will. :D

[pinkmandy]

I will absolutely not vote for any of the other canidates. I firmly believe in the Protest vote. Its an actual number that the GOP can see they lost and know what it cost them. Whoever is closest to Pauls position, so that leaves out the Democrats and the rest of the Republicans. But I expect Paul to be in it as long as we keep him in it and I know we will. :D

That's my stance, too. The message is important...meanwhile we work on changing the membership rolls of local GOP parties, get RP repubs into elected positions. This is MUCH bigger than one race for one amazing person.

[virgil47]

WilliamC, I want to see Ron Paul in the White House as much or even perhaps more than many of the folks on this board. However, if that does not come to pass I am not just going to go off and pout. I believe that our system of government is badly broken and if RP and his ideas do not win this time perhaps his ideas will win in a future election. In order for that to happen the U.S. must still exist in 2012. I firmly believe that if RP does not win then Romney is our best hope for survival until the next presidential election. If McCain or the Democrats win we all lose big time. The very survival of our country and our way of life is at stake here. This is simply to important to play sophomoric games with. Do you really want to see blood running in the streets and government troops on every street corner. I for one do not. If the Clintons take the White House I am afraid that some of RP's more radical supporters will decide it is time to move from the ballot box to the cartridge box. If that happens America will cease to exist as a free nation. The fact that we have so many Nukes will ensure that almost every government on earth will rush to the aid of the U.S. government. It is a no win situation. I'm hoping that if RP does not get the nomination he's offered the VP slot by Romney so many of his ideas can get into the mainstream. I know full well that many of you don't feel that way but I really, really want the U.S. to continue to exist. Please think about what I've said and the implications of a McCain or Democratic win.

[shadowhooch]

For those that would vote for Obama to "punish the GOP". How can it be a punishment if they don't know it? How will they see that a bunch of Ron Paul supporters voted for Obama? How will voting for Obama send any kind of message other than "the establishment won again"?

Staying home is no better. The only way to send a message is to write in Paul, if he isn't nominated. Then when there is 5% write in for Paul, and Obama wins by less than 5%, then and only then does the GOP get the message that they screwed themselves. Then and only then does the rest of America see that there are 5% of us that won't settle for the "lesser of two evils" bullshit.

If you vote Dem or stay at home, you are doing exactly what the opposition wants you to do.

I agree. Writing in Ron Paul is the only way to voice to the "establishment" that our needs are not being addressed. That is the only way for them to pay any attention at all.

[Mark37snj]

jarofclay, I believe it is you who is the TROLL. If you do not have an opinion and the ability to defend it then please roll over and go back to sleep!!!

No, your the TROLL!!!

[SeanEdwards]

For those that would vote for Obama to "punish the GOP". How can it be a punishment if they don't know it? How will they see that a bunch of Ron Paul supporters voted for Obama? How will voting for Obama send any kind of message other than "the establishment won again"?

Staying home is no better. The only way to send a message is to write in Paul, if he isn't nominated. Then when there is 5% write in for Paul, and Obama wins by less than 5%, then and only then does the GOP get the message that they screwed themselves. Then and only then does the rest of America see that there are 5% of us that won't settle for the "lesser of two evils" bullshit.

If you vote Dem or stay at home, you are doing exactly what the opposition wants you to do.

And if we write in Paul, and McLame wins? Then what?

Psychotic warmonger who wants 1,000,000 years of war having control of nukes is not acceptable to me.

I swear to the FSM, that if McCain wins, I'm renouncing my US citizenship and seeking political asylum in a sane country.

[davidkachel]

Interesting, but pointless thread.
"If RP isn't the nominee, then I'll vote for ******* and hope we can take 'em the next time."

Boys and girls, there isn't likely to be a next time. Remember, what the Republicans and Democrats "tell us" is no more real than the "Hanna Montana" character.

What they are really after is World War III and the "new world order". At this point it is just as clear as it was in Hitler's time. The fuse is lit and it is Iran, a country which we now know for a fact is no threat to us whatsoever, yet STILL we are going to attack it any day now.

Four years from now our means of fomenting the revolution will be gone in the name of protecting us from the internet via control of the internet. Our voices will be silenced, RP will be discredited and speaking out will get you the focused attention of guys in cheap suits.

We have only two options: get RP elected, or do so much damage to the political system that it can't recover enough to take complete control in less than four years, leaving us one more shot.

But you guys aren't interested in doing any damage. You all think the sheep can hold an election with the permission and control of the wolves and somehow win.

So many of you have said there is no difference between the Republicans and the Democrats, but has anyone stopped to think what that really means??? They are sharing power and have been for a century! Only the individuals care who wins. The parties don't care. They all have the same goal: totalitarianism. Sure each would prefer that it is in control, but regardless, all still get what they want. In fact, the more the voters think the current party in power are scoundrels, the more even the sharing becomes and the happier they all are. Never listen to what they say, only look at what they do. They ALL voted for war. They ALL voted for the patriot act. They ALL want you to have a national ID card.

No vote for any candidate except RP means anything in this or any other election. All other candidates are simply different heads on the same hydra.

We need to stop thinking in terms of "who I'll vote for if" and start thinking in terms of "how much havoc can I wreak?"

[shadowhooch]

WilliamC, I want to see Ron Paul in the White House as much or even perhaps more than many of the folks on this board. However, if that does not come to pass I am not just going to go off and pout. I believe that our system of government is badly broken and if RP and his ideas do not win this time perhaps his ideas will win in a future election. In order for that to happen the U.S. must still exist in 2012. I firmly believe that if RP does not win then Romney is our best hope for survival until the next presidential election. If McCain or the Democrats win we all lose big time. The very survival of our country and our way of life is at stake here. This is simply to important to play sophomoric games with. Do you really want to see blood running in the streets and government troops on every street corner. I for one do not. If the Clintons take the White House I am afraid that some of RP's more radical supporters will decide it is time to move from the ballot box to the cartridge box. If that happens America will cease to exist as a free nation. The fact that we have so many Nukes will ensure that almost every government on earth will rush to the aid of the U.S. government. It is a no win situation. I'm hoping that if RP does not get the nomination he's offered the VP slot by Romney so many of his ideas can get into the mainstream. I know full well that many of you don't feel that way but I really, really want the U.S. to continue to exist. Please think about what I've said and the implications of a McCain or Democratic win.

Are you kidding? A vote for Romney is basically voting for 4 more years of George W Bush!!! Romney clearly stated that the War in Iraq was a good idea. He fully supports Bush's foreign policy. If you really believe nominating Romney is the path to victory for the GOP, you are sadly mistaken. It is evident by voter turnout of the Repubs vs the Dems in the primaries. Democrats will win vs ANY Republican "establishment" candidate.

The Republican "John Kerry" stands no chance because he stands for nothing. I vow to stand for something with MY vote.

[virgil47]

MARK37snj, can you read, can you reason, if so defend that idiotic remark! Where I come those who can't reason or defend a position lower themselves to name calling just like the little kids in the schoolyard. Sound familiar?

[WilliamC]

WilliamC, I want to see Ron Paul in the White House as much or even perhaps more than many of the folks on this board. However, if that does not come to pass I am not just going to go off and pout. I believe that our system of government is badly broken and if RP and his ideas do not win this time perhaps his ideas will win in a future election. In order for that to happen the U.S. must still exist in 2012. I firmly believe that if RP does not win then Romney is our best hope for survival until the next presidential election. If McCain or the Democrats win we all lose big time. The very survival of our country and our way of life is at stake here. This is simply to important to play sophomoric games with. Do you really want to see blood running in the streets and government troops on every street corner. I for one do not. If the Clintons take the White House I am afraid that some of RP's more radical supporters will decide it is time to move from the ballot box to the cartridge box. If that happens America will cease to exist as a free nation. The fact that we have so many Nukes will ensure that almost every government on earth will rush to the aid of the U.S. government. It is a no win situation. I'm hoping that if RP does not get the nomination he's offered the VP slot by Romney so many of his ideas can get into the mainstream. I know full well that many of you don't feel that way but I really, really want the U.S. to continue to exist. Please think about what I've said and the implications of a McCain or Democratic win.

Unless Ron Paul himself endorsed Romney, which I don't think he will, then I won't vote for Romney nor any other candidate that does not, in word and deed, stand 100% behind the Constitution as the only guide for how he would govern.

I just don't think the world is going to end quite the way you seem to.

[Mark37snj]

MARK37snj, can you read, can you reason, if so defend that idiotic remark! Where I come those who can't reason or defend a position lower themselves to name calling just like the little kids in the schoolyard. Sound familiar?

From my previous post on page 4 Troll, as you can see I already stated it, do your homework!!! :cool:

I will absolutely not vote for any of the other canidates. I firmly believe in the Protest vote. Its an actual number that the GOP can see they lost and know what it cost them. Whoever is closest to Pauls position, so that leaves out the Democrats and the rest of the Republicans. But I expect Paul to be in it as long as we keep him in it and I know we will.

[davidkachel]

Hasn't it occurred to anyone that if RP is not the nominee, he will very likely have a stand he'll want us to take that we should ALL follow? And I doubt very seriously that stand will be "vote for a nanny state democrat".

[Original_Intent]

While we support Ron Paul, I do not think any of us are delegating our responsibility to think and make our own decisions to Ron Paul, nor would he want us to.

[pinkmandy]

MARK37snj, can you read, can you reason, if so defend that idiotic remark! Where I come those who can't reason or defend a position lower themselves to name calling just like the little kids in the schoolyard. Sound familiar?

I just did some searching and you have spent more time on this forum promoting Romney than Paul. Interesting.

[davidkachel]

While we support Ron Paul, I do not think any of us are delegating our responsibility to think and make our own decisions to Ron Paul, nor would he want us to.

You're right. We should all ignore any kind of leadership and each go a different direction, focusing our attention on proving how independent and "free-thinking" we are, rather than on getting our freedom back. That's sure to get us somewhere. Look how far it has gotten the Libertarian party in the last half century!

[Mark37snj]

I just did some searching and you have spent more time on this forum promoting Romney than Paul. Interesting.

Good work detective!!! :) I think I will go let a Mod know about virgil47 now.

[DAFTEK]

GOP will lose anyway imo. Whether we vote dem or 3rd party. I was disputing voting for ANOTHER GOP candidate if Paul doesn't get the nom. I'm all for teaching them a lesson but will take my chances w/3rd party or a write in. GOP will lose regardless.

If there is a 3rd party then i would vote for that too, hopefully is Paul. But when i hear more and more people say WRITE IN that they will know you are sending a message I'm stuck wondering how much of that is true, what stops them from putting an X to anyone of the empty boxes that has not been done, i think Ron Paul write in will just cause more fraud to happen... How do you write in his name on an electronic machine also? I'm sure some of you have voted full democrat on the house election to send a point to the Republicans, i did! Has it changed anything in the GOP? Maybe not, but if they lose the white house they will consider why if we can get the word out what we will do to get the democrats in power if they don't get their shit straight and stop forcing the media to blackout Paul.

[Original_Intent]

You're right. We should all ignore any kind of leadership and each go a different direction, focusing our attention on proving how independent and "free-thinking" we are, rather than on getting our freedom back. That's sure to get us somewhere. Look how far it has gotten the Libertarian party in the last half century!

Nice straw man, and of course I never said that.

I am refuting the argument that IF Ron Paul endorsed say, Mitt Romney, then it is encumbent upon us as Ron Paul supporters to follow that endorsement. To say that because you support a candidate, that if he drops out that you are bound to follow his endorsement is foolish. And this is NOT a straw man, this is almost exactly what was being said.

Certainly our efforts working together are more effective than us each going our own direction, I am a strong believer in coalition building as long as it is not done at the expense of fundamental principle.

Not that I am much worried, I think the chance that Ron Paul would actually endorse any of the current batch of scoundrels approaches zero. So let's croos that bridge when we come to it (likely never).

I think that Ron Paul would be concerned if the grassroots said, in essence "Sir, we supporters stand ready to do whatever you say. Should you drop from the race, we merely await your word, good sir, on what you would have us do!"

If you disagree, you are free to.

edit: having re-read the thread, I can see that my post following yours was seen as a response to your post. I agree with your post preceding mine. I don't think that RP will be endorsing anyone if he drops.

[JenaS62]

She doesn't need to worry about it. Let here know that Romney has plenty of support and her single vote will make a much bigger difference for Paul than Romney. Ask her if she would want either of them to be her President, Romney or Hillary. If she doesn't want them she needs to vote for Paul if that's what she believes in.
.


I went that route already. The woman has a deep seated fear of McCain. She said she would hate herself in the morning if Romney lost to McCain by only a few votes. BTW - my mother is 73 and I am 45. We've both been down this road before. When I voted for Perot in 92 (along with my dad and my brother) she
was pissed as hell at us for allowing "that Clinton guy" to win. :rolleyes:

[davidkachel]

...having re-read the thread, I can see that my post following yours was seen as a response to your post. I agree with your post preceding mine. I don't think that RP will be endorsing anyone if he drops.

Yes, that is how I saw your post, as a response to mine.

One of the risks of the internet; misunderstanding.

I think there is the same chance RP will back Romney as there is I will become convinced that Ted Kennedy is a fine human being; that is to say, an infinity of zeros!

My point is that a "revolution" where everyone is "the leader" is not going anywhere. We have a "leader" why not just wait to see what he has to say and would like us to do should he not get the nomination. He is the man we have chosen to follow and unless he starts acting bizarre (very unlikely) then we should probably follow him.

We can all be free-thinking individuals AND work toward a common goal under the guidance of an effective leader, at the same time. This is my major contention with the Libertarians. They have been so busy the last several decades showing how free-thinking and individualistic they are, they have accomplished exactly nothing in all that time. Of course, they will proudly show you how many (not very damn many at all) people they have successfully gotten elected as dog-catcher or to school boards as proof of how far along they've gotten down the road to recovering our liberty!

I just don't want this movement to become as useless and pathetic as the Libertarians. They have no fight in them at all and I fervently hope that will not turn out the be the case with the RP Revolution.

[JenaS62]

I hope that RP does give us advise on how to vote if it's not for RP. I want to do what is best for our country.

[pinkmandy]

I hope that RP does give us advise on how to vote if it's not for RP. I want to do what is best for our country.

I think he will give some guidance if that is the case. I do know he has said repeatedly that he would not back any of his fellow republicans (unless they radically change their platforms) so that's good enough for me for now!

[WilliamC]

I just did some searching and you have spent more time on this forum promoting Romney than Paul. Interesting.

Interesting how that works for some Ron Paul "supporters" isn't it?

heh heh.

[PhilA]

A Hillary Presidency is a sacrifice I'm willing to make to teach the Republican Party that they need to change their ways. Every Ron Paul supporter should write Paul in at the General Election to make a statement. This will unquestionably be reported on the News if we can allow Paul to achieve the status of the man with the most write-in votes in a General Election in our nation's history.

Good point. If we get enough Ron Paul votes in the general election, wether he is a candidate or not, the GOP will see the percentage of votes that they COULD have gotten, and why they lost the white house.

[pinkmandy]

Interesting how that works for some Ron Paul "supporters" isn't it?

heh heh.

Yep. And the silence is deafening. ;)

[pacelli]

I just had a very unpleasant conversation with my mother this morning. Although she loves RP and had every intention of voting for him - she is afraid of McCain winning the republican nomination and therefore allowing Clinton to win the general election. So she says that she is voting for Romney here in Florida because she does not want McCain to win (Romney and
McCain are tied here). She thinks that if Romney get the GOP nomination - more people will come out to vote against Hillary. How do we combat this mentality?

The general election is the time to vote against the other party. The primary is the time to vote your heart.

[scandinaviany3]

I just had a very unpleasant conversation with my mother this morning. Although she loves RP and had every intention of voting for him - she is afraid of McCain winning the republican nomination and therefore allowing Clinton to win the general election. So she says that she is voting for Romney here in Florida because she does not want McCain to win (Romney and
McCain are tied here). She thinks that if Romney get the GOP nomination - more people will come out to vote against Hillary. How do we combat this mentality?

Romney has no chance of winning given his record of taking over companies and his firms and 1000's of job losses they forced because of reorganization and other "business and investor" decisions

You cant possible paint a bigger target on yourself in a year where the economy, home loss, etc. was pushed on a lot of people because of this very action.

He is a VERY DEAD candidate. Republican's dont bring up these issues...but Democrats will have this ad ready to run and drop the bomb when its most needed...

Walla hillary or most likely obama....victory...choose Romney

mccain has no chance let him try. He is the easiest for ron to take down.

Romney is much harder within the party.

[pinkmandy]

The general election is the time to vote against the other party. The primary is the time to vote your heart.


Only if you're loyal to a party and not ideals imo and anytime you aren't voting your heart you aren't voicing your opinion anyway. I won't vote for ideals I hate to prevent other ideals which I hate about the same for different reasons from winning. You can't do the same thing, over and over, and expect different results. I'm RP or 3rd party.

[scandinaviany3]

McCain and Hillary are two sides of the same coin. I'm really beginning to doubt that the majority of RP supporters are truly for America. Most of you are advocating throwing a temper tantrum because you can't have your way. Hmmm, not a very mature perspective is it? So if I'm right you youngsters are saying if I can't have Ron Paul as my president then screw America it deserves what it gets. To me that is a very selfish and suicidal way of looking at life. Most of you seem to believe that politics are an exact science. I'm sorry to burst your bubble ... it's is about compromise and trying to do the best you can for the most people. Answer this question if you will. Would any of you support Ron Paul as a VP if he doesn't win the nomination? If not why?

interesting? I hear the fear in what you are saying. But have hope..that we must be sure on.

They are all two sides of the same coin except ron.

temper tantrum, no...Passion..yes.. like lets say a tea party, a declaration of independence...its called integrity, morals, virtues and a willingness to sacrifice for the greater good and your country against all enemies foreign and domestic.

Too many citizens are now too frustrated to ever again be tricked by the worser of two evils one trick at a time. They no longer want to roll over and play dead. Rather now they see they are dead if they do not fight and are now left with no choice but to just say NO!

History is repute with showing eternal vigilance is mandatory. It does not take very many people to change the fate of mankind. But if good and moral men and women do not stand tall and take on the evils of this world the blood of spirit, body and soul is on our hands if we do not act. This is something that the evils that fill the media, congress, try their darnedest to squish out of the people.

You are correct to in saying politics is not a exact science but at least a 80% agreement as Ronald Reagan stated is needed not a 30% like the rest of the candidates offer.

The VP questions is up to Ron. The presidential choice though is still up to us all.

[scandinaviany3]

For those that would vote for Obama to "punish the GOP". How can it be a punishment if they don't know it? How will they see that a bunch of Ron Paul supporters voted for Obama? How will voting for Obama send any kind of message other than "the establishment won again"?

Staying home is no better. The only way to send a message is to write in Paul, if he isn't nominated. Then when there is 5% write in for Paul, and Obama wins by less than 5%, then and only then does the GOP get the message that they screwed themselves. Then and only then does the rest of America see that there are 5% of us that won't settle for the "lesser of two evils" bullshit.

If you vote Dem or stay at home, you are doing exactly what the opposition wants you to do.


This is the power of negotiation. If they choose to let the democrats win to get their anti US initiatives passed then at least we can show that 5% were not fooled.

This 5% will then come back with a vengence in the party and in the public every year until the next election to show they betrayed us and fooled the rest of america.

[lloydian]

Virgil sir, you are not a true Ron Paul supporter.

[scandinaviany3]

WilliamC, I want to see Ron Paul in the White House as much or even perhaps more than many of the folks on this board. However, if that does not come to pass I am not just going to go off and pout. I believe that our system of government is badly broken and if RP and his ideas do not win this time perhaps his ideas will win in a future election. In order for that to happen the U.S. must still exist in 2012. I firmly believe that if RP does not win then Romney is our best hope for survival until the next presidential election. If McCain or the Democrats win we all lose big time. The very survival of our country and our way of life is at stake here. This is simply to important to play sophomoric games with. Do you really want to see blood running in the streets and government troops on every street corner. I for one do not. If the Clintons take the White House I am afraid that some of RP's more radical supporters will decide it is time to move from the ballot box to the cartridge box. If that happens America will cease to exist as a free nation. The fact that we have so many Nukes will ensure that almost every government on earth will rush to the aid of the U.S. government. It is a no win situation. I'm hoping that if RP does not get the nomination he's offered the VP slot by Romney so many of his ideas can get into the mainstream. I know full well that many of you don't feel that way but I really, really want the U.S. to continue to exist. Please think about what I've said and the implications of a McCain or Democratic win.

Why do you believe that Romney would not go with all you say. He has the same group of goons working in his staff and advisors. Which means they will make the calls in his administration once they are put their to return the favor.

I am far, far more worried about non-ron paul supporters going violent. These are the people that talk about killing and winning in iraq and elsewhere. i have meet them..very different viewpoint on killing then civil soceity.

The US will not exist? Hard to say. But Romney is not the savior...most likely from the fruits of those that surround him ...very bad signs of the opposite.

[Original_Intent]

Yes, that is how I saw your post, as a response to mine.

One of the risks of the internet; misunderstanding.

I think there is the same chance RP will back Romney as there is I will become convinced that Ted Kennedy is a fine human being; that is to say, an infinity of zeros!

My point is that a "revolution" where everyone is "the leader" is not going anywhere. We have a "leader" why not just wait to see what he has to say and would like us to do should he not get the nomination. He is the man we have chosen to follow and unless he starts acting bizarre (very unlikely) then we should probably follow him.

We can all be free-thinking individuals AND work toward a common goal under the guidance of an effective leader, at the same time. This is my major contention with the Libertarians. They have been so busy the last several decades showing how free-thinking and individualistic they are, they have accomplished exactly nothing in all that time. Of course, they will proudly show you how many (not very damn many at all) people they have successfully gotten elected as dog-catcher or to school boards as proof of how far along they've gotten down the road to recovering our liberty!

I just don't want this movement to become as useless and pathetic as the Libertarians. They have no fight in them at all and I fervently hope that will not turn out the be the case with the RP Revolution.

Agreed.

[scandinaviany3]

.


I went that route already. The woman has a deep seated fear of McCain. She said she would hate herself in the morning if Romney lost to McCain by only a few votes. BTW - my mother is 73 and I am 45. We've both been down this road before. When I voted for Perot in 92 (along with my dad and my brother) she
was pissed as hell at us for allowing "that Clinton guy" to win. :rolleyes:

Bush senior was out of touch with america that is why he lost...

Trust me you all had nothing to do with it.

I was mortified, but learned later how many angry folk there were that felt he was wealthy and out of touch during the economic down turn.

HMMM....sound familiar...great parallel...

Clinton vs Bush Senior

and

Democrats vs Romney


We must be wise and learn not to repeat history and loose again and loose more of the congress.

Ron is the only hope to turn this around.

[constitutional]

If Ron Paul drops out we need to drop the Republican party and vote for Obama, as much as i hate to say it if that becomes the case i personally would hate to see McCrackhead or Hitlary in power then Obama, cant be any worse. Write in will not help anyone as i used to think. The GOP deserves to lose this race for their blackout and dirty tricks on Ron Paul. If you think I'm wrong why please tell me why.....

You have no idea... you would be better off voting for some communist party rather than voting for Obama.

[LibertyEagle]

Listen to your mother. She is the voice of experience. Do NOT listen to those folks on this board that would rather sacrifice our country than support someone they feel is less than perfect. If Ron Paul does not win the nomination do not follow these folks and throw a temper tantrum. When I was a youngster doing what they advocate was called "cutting off your nose to spite your face". If you're not sure what that means ask your mother she knows.

Virgil,

Here's the deal. We got in this mess because the American people held their noses and voted for the lesser of two evils. When you do that, you still get an evil. That is exactly why our government has managed to accomplish every single one of the planks of the Communist Manifesto. Do you even realize that? It's true.

I will not now, nor will I ever again, sell my soul and vote for someone who will further the same policies that have just about destroyed this country! If you do otherwise, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

That said, if Ron Paul does not win the nomination, I will be writing him in. By the way, I am old enough to be the mother of a lot of people on this board. My mother was a delegate for Barry Goldwater, Sr., if that gives you any clue. I was young, but I remember going door-to-door handing out that literature.

So NOW, may I suggest that we GET BUSY and do everything within our power to make sure that Dr. Paul DOES get the nomination? Here are some Slim Jims, targeted to Seniors. Please get out there and hand them out.
http://www.unitedforliberty.com/assets/senior_sj_front.pdf
http://www.unitedforliberty.com/assets/senior_sj_back.pdf

[MsDoodahs]

McCain and Hillary are two sides of the same coin. I'm really beginning to doubt that the majority of RP supporters are truly for America. Most of you are advocating throwing a temper tantrum because you can't have your way. Hmmm, not a very mature perspective is it? So if I'm right you youngsters are saying if I can't have Ron Paul as my president then screw America it deserves what it gets. To me that is a very selfish and suicidal way of looking at life. Most of you seem to believe that politics are an exact science. I'm sorry to burst your bubble ... it's is about compromise and trying to do the best you can for the most people. Answer this question if you will. Would any of you support Ron Paul as a VP if he doesn't win the nomination? If not why?

"it's is about compromise and trying to do the best you can for the most people."

That attitude is the problem.

"Would any of you support Ron Paul as a VP if he doesn't win the nomination? If not why"

No, I would not. Why? Because that is what the GOP would try to do in order to keep all this "new blood" in their "party." The GOP and its "party before country" types can go straight to the devil.

[Hopeatron]

I just had a very unpleasant conversation with my mother this morning. Although she loves RP and had every intention of voting for him - she is afraid of McCain winning the republican nomination and therefore allowing Clinton to win the general election. So she says that she is voting for Romney here in Florida because she does not want McCain to win (Romney and
McCain are tied here). She thinks that if Romney get the GOP nomination - more people will come out to vote against Hillary. How do we combat this mentality?
Maybe you can get her aware of her own perspective.

Ask her if she realizes that fear is what's ruining America. Fear mongering by politicians has led our country down this path, and fear is how the majority of these candidates will garner their votes.

So rather than voting for a candidate due to fear, ask her to vote for the candidate of truth & integrity.

I'm aware of the logical arguments & they're important, but maybe she'd be more persuaded by backing it up with your empathy of her feelings of fear, highlighting it, and offering her a different perspective.

gl

[Carole]

Have her read this post I found on a Brits for Ron Paul forum:


De Facto Slavery
http://www.nabble.com/De-Facto-Slavery-to13465168.html

"In 1913 the U.S., UK, portugal, spain and France declared bankrupcy and all assets including birth certificates of citizens were signed over as collateral and all soveriengty was lost. You are de-facto slaves and property of the world bankers.

The Ron Paul Revolution is about ending that slavery. Learn the truth about the 1913 bankrupcy. You were born into slavery. Here is America's story. Just search under Bankrupt 1913. It's all there in public record. When you tell people this they will first label you a loon. But, it is nevertheless true. This is why the bank owned media are trying so hard to discredit and censure Ron Paul.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On the night of December 23, 1913 the United States Congress passed the Federal Reserve Act and thereby committed the greatest act of TREASON in history. It surrendered this nation's sovereignty and sold the American people into slavery to a cabal of arch-charlatan international bankers who proceeded to plunder, bankrupt, and conquer this nation with a money swindle.

The "money" the banks issue is merely bookkeeping entries. It cost them nothing and is not backed by their wealth, efforts, property, or risk. It is not redeemable except in more debt paper. The Federal Reserve Act forced us to pay compound interest on thin air. We now use worthless "notes" backed by our own credit that we cannot own and are made subject to compelled performance for the "privilege."

From 1913 until 1933, the United States paid the "interest" with more and more gold. The structured inevitability soon transpired: the Treasury was empty, the debt was greater than ever, and the United States declared bankruptcy. In exchange for using notes belonging to bankers who create them out of nothing on our own credit, we are forced to repay in substance (labor, property, land, businesses, resources - life) in ever-increasing amounts. This may be the greatest heist and fraud of all time.

When a government goes bankrupt, it loses its sovereignty. In 1933 the United States declared bankruptcy, as expressed in Roosevelt's Executive Orders 6073, 6102, 6111, and 6260, House Joint Resolution 192 of June 5, 1933, confirmed in Perry v. United States, (1935) 294 U.S. 330-381, 79 L.ed 912, as well as 31 USC 5112, 5119, and 12 USC 95A.

The bankrupt United States went into receivership, reorganized in favor of 115 creditors and new owners. In 1913, Congress turned over America... lock, stock and barrel to a handful of criminals whose avowed intent from the beginning was to plunder, bankrupt, conquer, and enslave the people of the United States of America and eliminate this nation from the face of the earth. The goal was, and is, to absorb America into a one-world private commercial government, a "New World Order."

With the Erie R.R. v Tompkins case of 1938, the Supreme Court confirmed their success. We are now in an international private commercial jurisdiction in colorable admiralty-maritime under the Law Merchant. We have been conned and betrayed out of our sovereignty, rights, property, freedom, common law, Article III Courts, and... our Republic. The Bill of Rights has been statutized into "civil rights" in commerce.

America has been stolen. We have been made slaves, i.e. permanent debtors, bankrupt, in legal incapacity, rendered commercial "persons," "residents," and corporate franchisees known as "citizens of the United States" under the so-called "14th Amendment." Said "Amendment," which was never ratified - see Congressional Record, June 13, 1967; Dyett v. Turner, (1968) 439 P2d 266, 267; State v. Phillips, 1975 (affirmed) - created a citizenship for corporations, abstract statutory entities which are the products and definitions of the legislature and are fully taxable and regulatable thereby. Thomas Jefferson's prophecy has come to pass: "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of currency... the banks... will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

Since 1933 what is called the "United States Government" is a privately owned corporation of the Federal Reserve/IMF. It is merely an instrument whereby the banksters administer their ongoing subjugation and plunder of what was once considered "the last great hope of human freedom." All "public servants," officials, Congressmen, politicians, judges, attorneys, law enforcement officers, States and their various agencies, etc., are the express agents of these foreign principals - see Foreign Agents Registration Act of 1938; 22 USC 286 et seq, 263A, 185G, 267J, 611(C) (ii) & (iii); Treasury Delegation Order #91 - who have stolen the country by clever, intentional, and unrelenting fraud, trickery, treachery, non-disclosure, mis-representation, intrigue, coercion, conspiracy, murder (example: the murder of President John F. Kennedy and the continuing cover-up), etc. If there is a greater tragedy in human history it is hard to know what it is.

An insidious aspect of this is that "officials" like you may think you are "public servants," or upholding the "law," or other hoaxes. In truth you are conscientiously and assiduously serving the arch-enemies of yourselves, your own rights, your fellow citizens, continued... human rights, life, and freedom in general. YOU are seditiously administering the plunder, bankruptcy, conquest, destruction, dismantling, and elimination of your country. YOU are systematically defrauding, extorting, impoverishing, and injuring human life on the basis of crimes and lies of such magnitude, depth, and proportions as to be beyond human comprehension.

By so doing, you are committing TREASON and PERFIDY so immense as "to make the angels weep." If you and your fellow "officials" do not understand the real situation, you are ignorant, naive, deceived, and conned. You are sheer dupes. If you do know and are parties to it, you are guilty of evil and heinous BETRAYAL. You are in such case TRAITORS and CRIMINALS. All of you "in power" are therefore, either fools or knaves, either of which eminently invalidates your "authority" and renders null and void absolutely all moral obligation to pay allegiance or to obey the TREASONOUS SYSTEM you enforce with such mechanical viciousness.

If, you, "public servants" had any shred left of humanity, awe, heart, clarity, sanity, access to your true being and conscience, you would instantly resign and do everything possible to inform the American people of their plight and help us retrieve our rights and our country. Only by such means can you even begin to atone for your endless crimes against humanity, the lives you so arrogantly and mindlessly butcher with the "meat-grinder of the law."

You DID NOT CREATE the lives you "legally" assault; they DO NOT belong to you. Ignorance of the law - moral and natural law - is no excuse. You cannot engage in bringing harm to life and, like the Nazi's defense at Nuernberg, presume that because you do so under the "authority" of an imaginary, abstract, unreal legal fiction called "government" you are freed of the consequences of your acts. Moral and natural law are not obviated by ignorance, hubris and self-righteous militancy. Your entire system - from the ground up - is deceit and fraud. It is illicit in essence and ab initio. As Broom's Maxims 297, 729 put it: "A right of action cannot arise out of fraud." Honor is earned by honesty and integrity, not under false and fraudulent pretenses. The color of the cloth one wears cannot cover up the usurpations, lies, and treachery. "When black is fraudulently declared to be white, not all will live in darkness."

More and more people are awakening to the truth. What do you think the American people will do as they discover that they have no more country, that they are slaves to mortal enemies, that they have been tricked and betrayed by their "leaders" who sold them out? what do you think they will do when they realize that all their alleged "public servants" are willing or stupidly compliant parties to the plunder, bankruptcy, subjugation, and ruin of their lives and country?

Thomas Jefferson wrote: "An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens." Lincoln said: "Just as I would not be a slave, neither would I be a master." I will not participate in your corrupt, arrogant, and cruel fraud, either as perpetrator or victim. The great Indian poet Tagore wrote: "Power takes as ingratitude the writhing of its victims."

I will no longer sit here and writhe. The TYRANNY over this nation MUST END! If you continue with this course, you will have natural and moral law and higher powers to answer to, not to mention all those you have wronged under phony color of law. You will also have your own laws turned against you, as you have turned the law against us. To transform the shield of protection into a sword of exploitation, subjugation, and plunder is perfidy. You have now been placed on notice. All further actions on your part will be willful! "



Signed: All Rights Reserved Without Prejudice.



_________________________________________, Sui Juris.

Resolutely, an American who demands his country back.


CICERO
Power and law are not synonymous. In truth, they are frequently in opposition and irreconcilable. There is God's Law from which all Equitable laws of man emerge and by which men must live if they are not to die in oppression, chaos and despair. Divorced from God's eternal and immutable Law, established before the founding of the suns, man's power is evil no matter the noble words with which it is employed or the motives urged when enforcing it. Men of good will, mindful therefore of the Law laid down by God, will oppose governments whose rule is by men, and if they wish to survive as a nation they will destroy the government which attempts to adjudicate by the whim of venal judges.

[mysticgeek]

If no one gets 51% at the convention ... all bets are off.