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View Full Version : Final response to friend about gun control




matratzac
01-27-2008, 11:39 AM
Him:

Ok I know I said I was done withthis but I have to respond to one more thing because its been bugging me....

"you can't eliminate the guns without a civil war."

"gun control is the illusion of safety."

"People are willing to give up their right to privacy for "the illusion of safety."

"People are willing to give up their right not to be tortured for "the illusion of safety."

"People are willing sacrifice the lives of thousand of american soldiers for "the illusion of safety."

Yet if you ask people to give up their gun its going to start a civil war?? If that is true then people have their priorities truely twisted.

"You could give me a link to a book supporting gun control and I could send you 20 claiming gun control to be pure bs"

-There is tons of literature and statistics out there to back up the anti-gun arguement as well, but there is one factor to failed to mention that works in favor of the pro-gun people. CASH MONEY. We are talking about a multi billion dollar industry here so of course the gun people are going to be pushing hard for as much research to support their side as possible. If theres one thing that you cannot argue with its that money makes the world go round. For the right price you can get just about anyone to say anything.

matratzac
01-27-2008, 11:40 AM
dangit forgot to subscribe again

Patriot0811
01-27-2008, 11:48 AM
guns are the people's only safeguard against an oppressive government. When the British came to Lexington right before the American Revolution, what were they there to do? That's right-confiscate the guns.

IrishUp
01-27-2008, 11:48 AM
The logic of gun laws is terrible flawed. Gun laws have no effect on criminal behavior. They only affect the behavior of law-abiding citizens. Criminals are criminals because they have no respect for the law. Why do people think more gun laws will change criminal behavior?

"Gee, this gang/drug/pimp/mob business is really dangerous. I should protect myself with a gun. I guess I'll go buy a gun, and have it registered with the state because that's what the law says I should do. I wouldn't want to get in trouble or anything."

Sheer insanity.
More guns. Less crime.

Nanerbeet
01-27-2008, 11:48 AM
Thomas Jefferson said,


"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who don't."


Don't forget it.

WATYF
01-27-2008, 11:49 AM
And again... point out that he is JUST LIKE THEM. Here we have a very contested issue (gun control) and you have lots of info to back-up your belief that guns save lives, and he says he has tons of info to backup that gun control works. But even though it's NOT a cut-and-dry issue, he still wants to FORCE his beliefs on EVERYONE.

He is not interested in freedom or fairness... he is interested in everyone in the country being forced to live according to his opinions, and that's just as bad as neo-conservatives or religious right-wingers trying to do the same thing.

WATYF

krott5333
01-27-2008, 11:49 AM
tell him to read "More Guns Less Crime" by John Lott.


Or, go to www.gunfacts.info and check out all the myths of gun-ownership, DEBUNKED!

Nanerbeet
01-27-2008, 11:52 AM
Taking from a previous post, say this in your best Ron Paul voice:

"If criminals have no respect for the law, would more gun laws encorage them to obey the law?"

Kregener
01-27-2008, 11:52 AM
While I can certainly agree that there is a "ton" of LITERATURE "out there" to back up the anti-gunners, I am afraid the statistics crash their world.

Nanerbeet
01-27-2008, 11:58 AM
-There is tons of literature and statistics out there to back up the anti-gun arguement as well, but there is one factor to failed to mention that works in favor of the pro-gun people. CASH MONEY. We are talking about a multi billion dollar industry here so of course the gun people are going to be pushing hard for as much research to support their side as possible. If theres one thing that you cannot argue with its that money makes the world go round. For the right price you can get just about anyone to say anything.



You can also always remind your godless friend the fallback argument for any liberal position is the evil empire created by money. Big oil, big pharma, the gun industry. The only evidence they need for a conviction is greed.

matratzac
01-27-2008, 12:10 PM
thanks, guys

Joe3113
01-27-2008, 12:10 PM
Bearing arms ensures government never becomes tyrannical. Yes, people are going to get shot, but:

“I prefer liberty with danger than peace with slavery”

- Jean-Jacques Rousseau

matratzac
01-27-2008, 12:14 PM
Bearing arms ensures government never becomes tyrannical. Yes, people are going to get shot, but:

“I prefer liberty with danger than peace with slavery”

- Jean-Jacques Rousseau

see but he will argue that is a ridiculous notion, i dont think he quite understands the idea that "we need guns to protect ourselves from the government" and to keep the gov from becoming tyrannical

Zym
01-27-2008, 12:18 PM
If you are trying to turn him to support the Good Doctor, don't focus on "convincing" him on issues he doesn't support, focus on issues he does support, or your more likely to drive him away. I learned this the hard way with a family member. If he's a gun grabber, he is also likely to be against the war, focus on that.

I think a lot of supporters have at least 1 issue they are not 100% on board with. For me it's the war, for others it's gun control, or pro-life vs. pro-choice . You need to convince your friend that although he may have issue disagreement on one issue, Dr. Paul is by far the best candidate as a whole.

Joe3113
01-27-2008, 12:20 PM
see but he will argue that is a ridiculous notion, i dont think he quite understands the idea that "we need guns to protect ourselves from the government" and to keep the gov from becoming tyrannical

Hit him with this from Thomas Jefferson:

“The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.”

Give him Freedom to Fascism - Aaron Russo

Tell him to read Naomi Wolf's book and watch her lecture on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc

Fascism is coming to America, but it's coming covertly. In fact I would contend that you are already living under fascism in the United States.

Nanerbeet
01-27-2008, 12:35 PM
see but he will argue that is a ridiculous notion, i dont think he quite understands the idea that "we need guns to protect ourselves from the government" and to keep the gov from becoming tyrannical



Thats because the standard liberal position is socialist; that the government must be the moral guidance and provide for its people not what they cannot provide for themselves, but what is best for them. This is what happens when you have a society without absolute morality (for example, God).

Remind your friend that he's a socialist. That should get his attention pretty quick.



Your God fearing, church going conservative republican knows the difference between right and wrong and can govern himself based on moral principle. Without God, a liberal has no basis for determining what is wrong, other than infringing on another persons rights directly, and so looks to the government for answers.

This is what the movement is all about; the government has no morals. It only has the power to act on my behalf to protect my liberty, not to strip me of it.

Nanerbeet
01-27-2008, 12:37 PM
Fascism is coming to America, but it's coming covertly. In fact I would contend that you are already living under fascism in the United States.


Since 1933 (or 1913, depending on how look at it).

gregl26
01-27-2008, 12:53 PM
anyone that has an issue like this i just can't convince them on gets this; ok well i don't agree with dr. paul on all the issues but i am still voting for him because right now our government is not responsive to the people. if we can shrink the size of government and get rid of the horrible corruption then we can each take up our own issues and fight for them with a much better expectation of success. right now government is so big and unresponsive that 1 person can not really ever hope to make change. with a smaller more constitutional gov though we can

Gimme Some Truth
01-27-2008, 12:53 PM
I doubt he/she will agree with guns until either he/she or his/her family are unfortunate enough to fall victim to a criminal or another Hitler pops up , this time in America (time makes no laws against such things happening, only people).

The fact is, you own your life and you should have the ability to defend yourself against criminals using the same weapons or devises that may end your life.

PS. I bet the victims of 911(and all the other subsequent innocent victims in Iraq and of course the troops) would have preferred for the pilots to have been allowed to defend their lives against the terrorists who got into the cockpit and slit their throats...
(These people are DEAD , and more will be joining them(and are right now as you read this!!), because the pilots were not allowed guns on their own planes!!!)

.

Joe3113
01-27-2008, 01:04 PM
Without God, a liberal has no basis for determining what is wrong,

Give me a break. I'm agnostic/deist and I know about right and wrong (and the grey areas).

Geez, talk about bible thumping. :rolleyes: :)

Xyrus2
01-27-2008, 01:44 PM
Without God, a liberal has no basis for determining what is wrong, other than infringing on another persons rights directly, and so looks to the government for answers.

Huckabee? Is that you? Hey you guys, check it out! Huckabee is posting on our forum! What an honor.

Your comment is quite insulting. I'm an atheist and I'm not out killing babies, raping women, or beating homeless people. I also have no urge to go and bomb brown people "in Jesus's name" either.

Indeed, it's the so-called "Christian right" that has been part of the problem with them trying to subvert the Constitution to enforce their "moral values" and agenda . That is not and was not the intention of the Constitution.

Keep your narrow, pompous, self-righteousness to yourself. I, for one, do not need invisible sky fairies to tell me the difference between right and wrong. Nor do I need a 2000 year old book of hypocrisy and myth to tell me how to live my life. Nor do I need people telling me that I should live my life by their beliefs.

My belief is people should be free to choose how they want to live their lives as long as they are not infringing on the rights of others. That is what we should be striving for, not some theocratic dictatorship.

~X~

BarryDonegan
01-27-2008, 02:03 PM
the center for disease control, among many other sources, have cited that gun control legislation has either no relationship to decreasing crime, and in some cases is associated with a raise in crime.