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View Full Version : CHANGE = Abolished Income Tax - Replaced with Nothing - Government Reduced Equally




Menthol Patch
01-27-2008, 07:06 AM
What "CHANGE" means to a REPUBLICAN.

CHANGE = Abolished Income Tax - Replaced with Nothing - Government Reduced Equally

I've been hearing a lot about the concept of "change" lately. It seems to be the latest catch phrase. Politicians, pundits, and bloggers have been saying that it's the word people want to hear this election and what they want to see happen. In particular, a certain democratic candidate has been talking about change. However, the word is vague. What does change represent?

As Republicans we know what change almost always means to a democratic political candidate. Quite frankly, it means socialized health care, more social programs, and more spending to solve all the social ills of our society. Basically, if a democrat is calling for change that candidate wants an even larger, more controlling, and more expensive government. To such democrats the government has a duty to provide for everyone from the cradle to the grave. They are willing to bankrupt this nation to make it happen.

It's obvious to those that desire small government, balanced budgets, and reduced spending the democratic definition of change is completely unacceptable. It's simply not fiscally responsible! To pay for the democratic version of change taxes would have to be increased, the government would be forced to continue borrowing money from other nations such as communist China, and more money would need to be printed out of thin air. The results of democratic change would be disastrous for our nation.

However, what kind of change should a Republican desire? I think to answer this question the current state of our nation should be considered. Right now we are in an economic crisis. The cause of this crisis is a large expensive government we cannot afford. In reality, the USA is spending itself into oblivion. Even without implementing the democratic version of "change" the national debt is soaring, inflation is accelerating (a gallon of milk can cost up to five dollars a gallon these days), and the size of government is increasing at a terrifying pace.

This massive spending due to our currently huge government is the root of the majority of problems in our nation. Please consider for a moment how spending more than we afford compounds our problems. First of all, to collect money to pay for a large government taxes are increased and hard working citizens have money ripped from their paychecks. When the government cannot raise taxes high enough to cover spending they start borrowing money which puts us into debt with foreign nations! And when that's still not enough the government asks the resident banking cartel of the United States (the Federal Reserve) to start printing money out of thin air. By inserting more money into the system the value of each individual dollar drops and inflation is allowed to climb. This makes every dollar in your wallet have less purchasing power and causes prices to climb. This dreadful phenomenon has a name. It's called the INFLATION TAX!

It's easy to see that the size and corresponding cost of government is growing at an alarming pace. Did you know that if the federal income tax was eliminated this very day the government would still take in the same amount of money as it did ten years ago? Also, did you know that the income tax can no longer even pay the interest on the national debt? These are absolute facts that cannot be disputed. A quick bit of research will confirm them both.

Due to these serious concerns about the size, cost, and growth of government type of "change" Republicans should desire is obvious. As fiscally responsible citizens we should advocate a return to SMALL GOVERNMENT! That's right, a government that we can AFFORD, that will not have to BORROW from China, and that does not require the constant PRINTING OF MONEY (created out of thin air) to keep it propped up. A return to such a small, fiscally responsible, and limited government would represent the type of change this nation so desperately needs!

The problem is that most Republican candidates love to talk about small government, reducing taxes, and limiting spending. But they only do these terms lip service. They have no true intention to take the bold and concerted ACTIONS required to make serious progress towards a more fiscally responsible government! Do you not believe me? The Republican Party has had eight years during the Bush administration to reduce the size of government and NOTHING has happened. Spending is higher than ever before, government is larger than ever before, and as a result our economy is facing an economic crisis that threatens the future of us all.

What the Republican Party needs dramatically is a rock solid standard that represents what the first phase of CHANGE toward a small fiscally responsible government. Such a standard would force REAL concerted action to take place and as a party provide a unified goal for ever Republican voter, candidate, office holder, congressmen, senator, and president!

CHANGE = Abolished Income Tax - Replaced with nothing - Government Reduced Equally

The meaning of the above standard is simple. The income tax is a huge burden on tax payers, the agency (IRS) that enforces it is abusive, the complex code that it is composed of is a nightmare, and it's not required to have a small government that abides by the constitution. This universally disliked and repugnant tax should be abolished. Additionally, it should be replaced with nothing. That means no sales tax, no flat tax, and no replacement tax of any kind. Finally, while we are taking swift action to abolish the income tax we must reduce the size of government by an equal measure. Without hesitation or bureaucratic bickering we must immediately cut the size and cost government (at an absolute minimum) by the amount of revenue lost. The imminent loss of revenue will benefit the expediency of this process, because once the income tax is abolished there will be NO CHOICE but to reduce the size of government.

As I mentioned earlier, if the income tax was eliminated today and replaced with nothing the government would take in the SAME AMOUNT OF REVENUE as it did approximately ten years ago. Reducing the current size and cost of government to what it was ten years ago is an absolutely achievable goal. To be blunt, if we cannot abolish the income tax and reduce the size of government to what it was under the CLINTON ADMINISTRATION then we must no longer pretend to be the fiscal conservative voice of our nation!

We can no longer afford to listen to politicians who try and tell us what we want to hear but lack the conviction to follow through with their actions. These individuals will NEVER reduce the size of government. They are not principled or truly fiscally conservative. By accepting the above mentioned absolute and uncompromising standard we can hold each and everyone of our fellow Republicans accountable. Either an individual is actively working towards these goals that represent the minimum of fiscally responsible CHANGE or the person is simply not an advocate of small government.

Republicans must be for limited, small, and fiscally responsible government. There must be a standard. Now we have one.

Lets work towards the standard of Republican CHANGE!

Menthol Patch
01-27-2008, 07:09 AM
Who likes the idea of this standard?

Menthol Patch
01-27-2008, 07:16 AM
Does anyone here think that the Republican Party should set a standard for at least reducing the size of government to what it was under the CLINTON administration?

Cyclone
01-27-2008, 07:18 AM
Peace and thank you.

I am proud of you.

Going to bed now

Carl Corey
01-27-2008, 07:22 AM
Abolishing the income tax is silly and every rational person knows it.

Just tax 20% of every dollar earned above 100.000 a year. So if you earn 130.000 a year you're taxed (130.000 - 100.000) / 5 = 6.000$

acroso
01-27-2008, 07:24 AM
"
Abolishing the income tax is silly and every rational person knows it.

Just tax 20% of every dollar earned above 100.000 a year. So if you earn 130.000 a year you're taxed (130.000 - 100.000) / 5 = 6.000$"

bullshit, the income tax is unconstitutional, and the IRS MUST be destroyed.

evadmurd
01-27-2008, 07:27 AM
Silly? The income tax is what is silly. Taxing success is atrocious. Cut the darn spending and give people their money.

deedles
01-27-2008, 07:27 AM
bye bye... Mods, I think it's better without that one... too bad but....

Cyclone
01-27-2008, 07:33 AM
Does anyone here think that the Republican Party should set a standard for at least reducing the size of government to what it was under the CLINTON administration?

At a bare minimum. It should be much smaller. I agree with your idea.

Cyclone
01-27-2008, 07:36 AM
We need to get to a place where government is so small and so impotent that it won't matter who is in the White House, because they won't be able to hurt us. Our founding fathers were some very smart men who had been through what we are going through right now. They learned. We forgot.

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

Those who ignore bed are doomed to lack of sleep. Goodnight all. Peace.

Wyurm
01-27-2008, 07:39 AM
Abolishing the income tax is silly and every rational person knows it.

Just tax 20% of every dollar earned above 100.000 a year. So if you earn 130.000 a year you're taxed (130.000 - 100.000) / 5 = 6.000$

It's not silly, but it is hard for many to fathom. The income tax is the re-uptake for the Federal Reserve system. You can't have one without the other. A central bank requires a re-uptake to maintain control. It's kind of like a battery requiring a ground to function. Most people don't think of it like that at all. They believe it is necessary for the government to operate, but that's just plain silly. There are several states that do not have an income tax.

The problem is this: When you tell people that you want to do something that SEEMS radical like removing the IRS, they see you as fringe or crazy. It sounds great, but too far fetched to actually happen outside a dream. Plus they don't want to loose their "entitlements". Have you ever tried to intervene with a drug user before? If you have then you should know how incredibly difficult it is to steer someone away from self-destructive behavior when they feel they really need it. The Fed and IRS system is a drug to the government. We as taxpayers and users of the Fed notes are enablers.

To effect a full recovery we have to heal our own selves first, we have to realize that we have an addiction before we can help the government overcome its addiction. Dr. Paul is aware of this and this is why he is toning down his discussion of the IRS. You aren't going to get anywhere if you keep telling a heroin addict that you are going to get rid of their heroin, instead you have to face the problem from the side rather than head on.

Truth Warrior
01-27-2008, 07:40 AM
Communist Manifesto planks

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

.................................................. .....

Does any of the above look familiar to anyone? :)

dblee
01-27-2008, 08:40 AM
Menthol, you're finally getting it. Now we can have a proper discussion.

Yes, lets get rid of the damn income tax. But it can't happen overnight, we need to cut spending drastically first or we go even farther into debt.



Communist Manifesto planks

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

.................................................. .....

Does any of the above look familiar to anyone? :)


Look's like we're about 9/10ths of the way there.

Carl Corey
01-27-2008, 05:48 PM
It's not silly, but it is hard for many to fathom.

Currently something like 90% of the wealth belongs to 10% of the population. If the difference increases further, which it currently does, it's only a matter of time till things get ugly. I guess it already has if you look at how people vote.

Certainly, you can be idealistic, but that hasn't gotten the current system anywhere. Pure capitalism isn't going to work any better than pure socialism.

Menthol Patch
02-03-2008, 07:50 AM
I'm back.

UK4Paul
02-03-2008, 08:07 AM
Abolishing the income tax is silly and every rational person knows it.

Just tax 20% of every dollar earned above 100.000 a year. So if you earn 130.000 a year you're taxed (130.000 - 100.000) / 5 = 6.000$

You might find the following link helpful...

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/256/

"If you got rid of the income tax today you'd have about as much revenue as we had 10 years ago." - Ron Paul

Politifact rated this statement MOSTLY TRUE.

Their conclusion:


We’ll concede that it’s possible Paul could reduce the budget by that much, based on some of the positions he advocates. Paul has said he’d like to slash the defense budget by pulling back all U.S. troops on foreign soil, zeroing out foreign aid and reducing the size of the active military. He also advocates abolishing other federal functions, like the Department of Education.

Whether he makes up that 12 percent difference or not will have to wait for a Paul presidency. Meanwhile, we find his statement that ending the income tax would roll back revenues 10 years to be Mostly True.

So abolishing the Income Tax is not silly. It simply means rolling back government spending to about 10 years ago.

Menthol Patch
02-03-2008, 08:15 AM
You might find the following link helpful...

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/256/

"If you got rid of the income tax today you'd have about as much revenue as we had 10 years ago." - Ron Paul

Politifact rated this statement MOSTLY TRUE.

Their conclusion:



So abolishing the Income Tax is not silly. It simply means rolling back government spending to about 10 years ago.

I totally agree!

Edu
02-03-2008, 08:31 AM
Abolishing the income tax is silly and every rational person knows it.You only hear that from "rational" people who think that's the only way government gets it's revenue. Clue, first 100 years, surplus in budget. Second clue, 1913.

Menthol Patch
02-03-2008, 08:32 AM
Abolishing the income tax is NOT silly at all. It is INSANE to believe we need an income tax.

Menthol Patch
02-03-2008, 08:33 AM
What "CHANGE" means to a REPUBLICAN.

CHANGE = Abolished Income Tax - Replaced with Nothing - Government Reduced Equally

I've been hearing a lot about the concept of "change" lately. It seems to be the latest catch phrase. Politicians, pundits, and bloggers have been saying that it's the word people want to hear this election and what they want to see happen. In particular, a certain democratic candidate has been talking about change. However, the word is vague. What does change represent?

As Republicans we know what change almost always means to a democratic political candidate. Quite frankly, it means socialized health care, more social programs, and more spending to solve all the social ills of our society. Basically, if a democrat is calling for change that candidate wants an even larger, more controlling, and more expensive government. To such democrats the government has a duty to provide for everyone from the cradle to the grave. They are willing to bankrupt this nation to make it happen.

It's obvious to those that desire small government, balanced budgets, and reduced spending the democratic definition of change is completely unacceptable. It's simply not fiscally responsible! To pay for the democratic version of change taxes would have to be increased, the government would be forced to continue borrowing money from other nations such as communist China, and more money would need to be printed out of thin air. The results of democratic change would be disastrous for our nation.

However, what kind of change should a Republican desire? I think to answer this question the current state of our nation should be considered. Right now we are in an economic crisis. The cause of this crisis is a large expensive government we cannot afford. In reality, the USA is spending itself into oblivion. Even without implementing the democratic version of "change" the national debt is soaring, inflation is accelerating (a gallon of milk can cost up to five dollars a gallon these days), and the size of government is increasing at a terrifying pace.

This massive spending due to our currently huge government is the root of the majority of problems in our nation. Please consider for a moment how spending more than we afford compounds our problems. First of all, to collect money to pay for a large government taxes are increased and hard working citizens have money ripped from their paychecks. When the government cannot raise taxes high enough to cover spending they start borrowing money which puts us into debt with foreign nations! And when that's still not enough the government asks the resident banking cartel of the United States (the Federal Reserve) to start printing money out of thin air. By inserting more money into the system the value of each individual dollar drops and inflation is allowed to climb. This makes every dollar in your wallet have less purchasing power and causes prices to climb. This dreadful phenomenon has a name. It's called the INFLATION TAX!

It's easy to see that the size and corresponding cost of government is growing at an alarming pace. Did you know that if the federal income tax was eliminated this very day the government would still take in the same amount of money as it did ten years ago? Also, did you know that the income tax can no longer even pay the interest on the national debt? These are absolute facts that cannot be disputed. A quick bit of research will confirm them both.

Due to these serious concerns about the size, cost, and growth of government type of "change" Republicans should desire is obvious. As fiscally responsible citizens we should advocate a return to SMALL GOVERNMENT! That's right, a government that we can AFFORD, that will not have to BORROW from China, and that does not require the constant PRINTING OF MONEY (created out of thin air) to keep it propped up. A return to such a small, fiscally responsible, and limited government would represent the type of change this nation so desperately needs!

The problem is that most Republican candidates love to talk about small government, reducing taxes, and limiting spending. But they only do these terms lip service. They have no true intention to take the bold and concerted ACTIONS required to make serious progress towards a more fiscally responsible government! Do you not believe me? The Republican Party has had eight years during the Bush administration to reduce the size of government and NOTHING has happened. Spending is higher than ever before, government is larger than ever before, and as a result our economy is facing an economic crisis that threatens the future of us all.

What the Republican Party needs dramatically is a rock solid standard that represents what the first phase of CHANGE toward a small fiscally responsible government. Such a standard would force REAL concerted action to take place and as a party provide a unified goal for ever Republican voter, candidate, office holder, congressmen, senator, and president!

CHANGE = Abolished Income Tax - Replaced with nothing - Government Reduced Equally

The meaning of the above standard is simple. The income tax is a huge burden on tax payers, the agency (IRS) that enforces it is abusive, the complex code that it is composed of is a nightmare, and it's not required to have a small government that abides by the constitution. This universally disliked and repugnant tax should be abolished. Additionally, it should be replaced with nothing. That means no sales tax, no flat tax, and no replacement tax of any kind. Finally, while we are taking swift action to abolish the income tax we must reduce the size of government by an equal measure. Without hesitation or bureaucratic bickering we must immediately cut the size and cost government (at an absolute minimum) by the amount of revenue lost. The imminent loss of revenue will benefit the expediency of this process, because once the income tax is abolished there will be NO CHOICE but to reduce the size of government.

As I mentioned earlier, if the income tax was eliminated today and replaced with nothing the government would take in the SAME AMOUNT OF REVENUE as it did approximately ten years ago. Reducing the current size and cost of government to what it was ten years ago is an absolutely achievable goal. To be blunt, if we cannot abolish the income tax and reduce the size of government to what it was under the CLINTON ADMINISTRATION then we must no longer pretend to be the fiscal conservative voice of our nation!

We can no longer afford to listen to politicians who try and tell us what we want to hear but lack the conviction to follow through with their actions. These individuals will NEVER reduce the size of government. They are not principled or truly fiscally conservative. By accepting the above mentioned absolute and uncompromising standard we can hold each and everyone of our fellow Republicans accountable. Either an individual is actively working towards these goals that represent the minimum of fiscally responsible CHANGE or the person is simply not an advocate of small government.

Republicans must be for limited, small, and fiscally responsible government. There must be a standard. Now we have one.

Lets work towards the standard of Republican CHANGE!


What do all of you think about my proposal?

RonPaulMania
02-03-2008, 12:33 PM
Abolishing the income tax is silly and every rational person knows it.

Just tax 20% of every dollar earned above 100.000 a year. So if you earn 130.000 a year you're taxed (130.000 - 100.000) / 5 = 6.000$

So you believe your income isn't yours, but what the government allows you to keep depending on who's voted in?

When was that an American idea?

Chester Copperpot
02-03-2008, 12:37 PM
Abolishing the income tax is silly and every rational person knows it.

Just tax 20% of every dollar earned above 100.000 a year. So if you earn 130.000 a year you're taxed (130.000 - 100.000) / 5 = 6.000$

The income tax is a major part of this country's problems. We need to kill it before it kills the country.