Mandatory vaccinations

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I know we all get them at birth, but my college just sent me this - I think I got all of them when I was a child anyway, but I have a big problem with the government telling me I must get a vaccination shot to go to college.

"The State of New Jersey requires all students attending college in New Jersey prove that:
1. They have been vaccinated against measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR).
2. They have received a second inoculation againsts measles (booster).
3. They have received at least the first dose of Hepatitis B."

What do you guys think? Isn't it my human right to refuse to be vaccinated and still attend college? Unless there is an epidemic going around I don't see the need for all these shots.

[Agent CSL]

Something like this just screams "PLEASE INVESTIGATE ME JEFF RENSE."

I think it's a human rights violation to force vaccination. How is this different than having an RFID?
"Oh, you don't have your RFID license... You can't go there."
"Oh, you haven't gotten your vaccines... You can't go here."

[LivingFree]

After learning that vaccines cause more harm than good I'll never get another vaccine. I'll just say it's for "religious" reasons.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

After learning that vaccines cause more harm than good I'll never get another vaccine. I'll just say it's for "religious" reasons.

so all I have to do is be a Huckabee supporter to get out of it?

[BreakYourChains]

I know we all get them at birth, but my college just sent me this - I think I got all of them when I was a child anyway, but I have a big problem with the government telling me I must get a vaccination shot to go to college.

"The State of New Jersey requires all students attending college in New Jersey prove that:
1. They have been vaccinated against measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR).
2. They have received a second inoculation againsts measles (booster).
3. They have received at least the first dose of Hepatitis B."

What do you guys think? Isn't it my human right to refuse to be vaccinated and still attend college? Unless there is an epidemic going around I don't see the need for all these shots.

Do not take any more vaccinations! Do your research, and do not allow them to dictate what goes into your body. There is a way to refuse these shots, but you might have to dig a bit to find the legal way to do it. Do not take any more, and do not take the flu shots. Once one starts to see the ingredients of these shots, one wonders the real purpose of the shots?
http://www.vaclib.org/
http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/vaccine_awareness.html
http://www.rense.com/general59/vvac.htm
Go watch this video - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6696666502913965744&q=vaccinations+the+hidden+truth&total=7&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

:O I got vaccinations as a young child, am I doomed?

[lucius]

"When we give government the power to make medical decisions for us, we, in essence, accept that the state owns our bodies." ~U.S. Representative Ron Paul

[LivingFree]

:O I got vaccinations as a young child, am I doomed?

Find out exactly what vaccines you've got and when.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Find out exactly what vaccines you've got and when.

The last ones were probably like 9 years ago, hepatitis somethin and somethin.

[fmontez]

Public Health should have been in the original Constitution, IMHO, but it did not exist as a formal science at the time of the drafting. My own studies are in PubH and Substance abuse… I can testify that vaccinations are a key component to public health. Vaccinations should be mandatory, because failure to have them endangers the entire community; the unvaccinated are basically mini biological weapons wandering our streets. There are many great articles you can google on this subject, basically the general public has some really warped ideas about the benefits to cost ratio of vaccinations.

The biggest myth: Vaccines cause more damage than good. BUSTED! Take any epidemiology class; vaccine benefits vastly outweigh any dangers. This is an example of “sheeple” thinking.

I would be interested to hear Ron Pauls opinion on this subject, as an M.D. he would know the extreme importance of vaccines to comunity health. Interesting subject, since Medicine and Public Health has a history of Indivitutal care vs. Community Care... (and like most arguments the truth seems to lie inbetween.) Does a person have a right to drive drunk? Go unvaccinated? Shout fire in a crowded theater?

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Public Health should have been in the original Constitution, IMHO, but it did not exist as a formal science at the time of the drafting. My own studies are in PubH and Substance abuse… I can testify that vaccinations are a key component to public health. Vaccinations should be mandatory, because failure to have them endangers the entire community; the unvaccinated are basically mini biological weapons wandering our streets. There are many great articles you can google on this subject, basically the general public has some really warped ideas about the benefits to cost ratio of vaccinations.

The biggest myth: Vaccines cause more damage than good. BUSTED! Take any epidemiology class; vaccine benefits vastly outweigh any dangers. This is an example of “sheeple” thinking.

I would be interested to hear Ron Pauls opinion on this subject, as an M.D. he would know the extreme importance of vaccines to comunity health. Interesting subject, since Medicine and Public Health has a history of Indivitutal care vs. Community Care... (and like most arguments the truth seems to lie inbetween.) Does a person have a right to drive drunk? Go unvaccinated? Shout fire in a crowded theater?
I haven't been ill for the past 6 years. I wash my hands, I don't touch my face with dirty hands. I take out a issue to cough/sneeze into when in public and promptly wash my hands after. I believe a good immune system could fight against anything, and it's worked for me so far.

[ConstitutionGal]

Public Health should have been in the original Constitution, IMHO, but it did not exist as a formal science at the time of the drafting. My own studies are in PubH and Substance abuse… I can testify that vaccinations are a key component to public health. Vaccinations should be mandatory, because failure to have them endangers the entire community; the unvaccinated are basically mini biological weapons wandering our streets. There are many great articles you can google on this subject, basically the general public has some really warped ideas about the benefits to cost ratio of vaccinations.

The biggest myth: Vaccines cause more damage than good. BUSTED! Take any epidemiology class; vaccine benefits vastly outweigh any dangers. This is an example of “sheeple” thinking.

I would be interested to hear Ron Pauls opinion on this subject, as an M.D. he would know the extreme importance of vaccines to comunity health. Interesting subject, since Medicine and Public Health has a history of Indivitutal care vs. Community Care... (and like most arguments the truth seems to lie inbetween.) Does a person have a right to drive drunk? Go unvaccinated? Shout fire in a crowded theater?


Well, to follow your reasoning if YOU take the vaccinations then you should be protected from ME even if I choose NOT to take them - or doesn't your faith in science go that far?

It is NOT the government's business if I choose to have a certain disease rather than fill my body with everything from mercury to thimerisol to formaldehyde (all of which are in our vaccines). Those of us over 40 only had to get a polio vaccination and most all of us survived the measels, the mumps, the chicken pox and rubella just fine and now have NATURUAL anitbodies agasint catching them again while those who were forced to be innoculated are now having to take 'boosters' because they're figuring out that the vaccines sometimes wear off! Let's face the facts here, most of these childhood diseases are not dangerous to the VAST majority of the population and a lot more children have been harmed from the vaccinations by suddendly developing everything from ADHD to DEATH!

[asgardshill]

Let's see - childhood diseases check ...

Mumps - check.

Chicken pox - check.

Measles - check.

Rubella - check.

Pinkeye - check.

Polio - nope, never had that. But my aunt did and she's a spry 78 walking 2 miles a day.

Been there done that got that T-shirt. Still here too, without being a walking pincushion for every vaccination known to mankind.

[fmontez]

Well, to follow your reasoning if YOU take the vaccinations then you should be protected from ME even if I choose NOT to take them - or doesn't your faith in science go that far?



This is another major MYTH, that I don't have to take it because everyone else is... the number of vaccines are dropping every year, and some diseases are starting to reappear. You are also failing to take into consideration the risk of you acquiring a disease and then having it mutate...

I don't care if someone gets a flu shot (you really should, every single year) but that is your health... just like if you want to weigh 300 lbs, do drugs, or jump out of an airplane... Freedom ends when it infringes (signifcantly) on the Freedom of others.

[fmontez]

OP, just get your shots or provide proof. Don't get your undies in bunch about it.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

This is another major MYTH, that I don't have to take it because everyone else is... the number of vaccines are dropping every year, and some diseases are starting to reappear. You are also failing to take into consideration the risk of you acquiring a disease and then having it mutate...

I don't care if someone gets a flu shot (you really should, every single year) but that is your health... just like if you want to weigh 300 lbs, do drugs, or jump out of an airplane... Freedom ends when it infringes (signifcantly) on the Freedom of others.

I really don't see why you need all these vaccinations for school, do I need them for going to public places too?

[ConstitutionGal]

This is another major MYTH, that I don't have to take it because everyone else is... the number of vaccines are dropping every year, and some diseases are starting to reappear. You are also failing to take into consideration the risk of you acquiring a disease and then having it mutate...

I don't care if someone gets a flu shot (you really should, every single year) but that is your health... just like if you want to weigh 300 lbs, do drugs, or jump out of an airplane... Freedom ends when it infringes (signifcantly) on the Freedom of others.

One of us is confused and I'm not sure whether it's you or me. I'm saying that if YOU want to put your faith in the vaccinations then it shouldn't matter to you whether I get vaccinated or not because you're 'protected'. My refusing to get the shots infringes in no way on your freedom to get them.

Another way to look at this is that the government only has the powers that we the people give to it AND we can't give the government a power that we don't possess to begin as concerns others ,THEREFORE, you can't grant the government the power to FORCE me to get vaccinated against my will. This is why there's that troublesome little exemption for religious beliefs in all the vaccination requirements. If getting vaccinated makes you feel safer, that's fine but neither you nor the state can force me into doing it or to giving it to my children.

[Agent CSL]

This is another major MYTH, that I don't have to take it because everyone else is... the number of vaccines are dropping every year, and some diseases are starting to reappear. You are also failing to take into consideration the risk of you acquiring a disease and then having it mutate...

I don't care if someone gets a flu shot (you really should, every single year) but that is your health... just like if you want to weigh 300 lbs, do drugs, or jump out of an airplane... Freedom ends when it infringes (signifcantly) on the Freedom of others.

That irresponsible thinking is very dangerous. It unleashes the "give an inch, take a mile" mentality. If they can mandate vaccines, they can do the same to RFID. Are you trying to say that the feds can tell me to get a vaccine because being sick infringes on other's freedom? What kind of mentality is that? :(

I've never had a flu vaccine and I will never get one. I haven't had the flu in years and when I did, it wasn't a big issue.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Wow I just had a conversation about it with a friend and she called me selfish and that when I have a child "Don't you dare ruin their life because you have a grudge against the world" I feel like i'm in the movie "Idiocracy."

[ConstitutionGal]

I really don't see why you need all these vaccinations for school, do I need them for going to public places too?

EXCELLENT point. Of course, most people that are really knowledgable about what's really going on with public 'education' in this country know that the schools are being used to teach children, and by extension their families, that we are all subserviant to the state. The schools are where the 2nd amendment battle is being waged to because they're teaching children that all guns in the hands of private citizens are dangerous and only the government has a legitimate use of force. Same thing with these vaccines - reasoning will shortly be that if the government can tell me what shots to take, then they can tell me what else I have to put in my body (all in the name of keeping me safe, you understand).

"If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny. "

~Thomas Jefferson

[tamor]

You did not get polio because of the vaccine against it -- this terrible disease left many not able to walk.. be thankful there is this vaccine

[ConstitutionGal]

You did not get polio because of the vaccine against it -- this terrible disease left many not able to walk.. be thankful there is this vaccine

I know many people who never contracted polio even though they were never vaccinated. Case in point, one of my uncles had polio (no lasting effects) but none of his 5 siblings or parents caught it from him. I'm not saying that NO vaccines so any good, I'm saying that the government has no right to force those to get them that don't wish to do so.

[hairball]

Pretty easy, and it isn't a Constitutional issue, it is a responciblity issue.

If you do not want vaccinations, fine, you can watch your kids die, or perhaps die yourself. I love that kind of Social Darwinism. If you ELECT to attend a college or school where you will be a dandy vector for all the things you are NOT vaccinated for, then yes, if you ELECT to join this group, t is right and just for them to have certain rules in place for letting commune with your fellow students.

I still remember the tailend of vaccinations, and my mother grew up during the times when many of those childhood diseases were ravaging schools.

Let fools be fools, just don't wan them spreading their diseases to me. Noone has the right to be a plague carrier.

[ConstitutionGal]

Let fools be fools, just don't wan them spreading their diseases to me. Noone has the right to be a plague carrier.

But if YOU'RE vaccinated, you should be immune....RIGHT? This issue is, do you or the state have a right to force your beliefs or preferences on someone else against their will? The answer, in a Republic is NO. The answer in a Democracy is yes. Thankfully, we live in Republic where our government was set up to protect the rights of the Individual instead of the wishes of the majority.

[ItsTime]

1:165 chances of getting autism. What are the odds of getting polio in the USA again?

[ConstitutionGal]

1:165 chances of getting autism. What are the odds of getting polio in the USA again?


Ask the parents of a child who developed autism after getting vaccines if it was worth it. I've talked to several and they all say no. Something else that no one likes to talk about is, given modern medicine, whether some of these diseases that used to kill people would actually be quite so bad now. Also, a great many of us actually had ALL those childhood diseases and suffer no ill effects from them at all. Granted, we missed a few days of school and spent a few uncomfortable days but now we're protected from those diseases for life and never had to put any toxins in our bodies to acheive it. Another thing is that today's knowledge of personal hygeine and cleanliness is much improved over the periods when many diseases caused widespread epidemics, thus, also cutting down on the risk of contracting certain diseases. Last point is that were the government REALLY concerned more with the diseases than with control, they would have control of our borders to prevent the infectious diseases like TB and the PLAGUE from walking across our borders with illegal aliens and they wouldn't allow illegal alien minors to even begin school without the 'required' vaccines (currently in many states they give them 'grace periods' to get the vaccinations and let them go ahead and start school).

[fmontez]

I know many people who never contracted polio even though they were never vaccinated. Case in point, one of my uncles had polio (no lasting effects) but none of his 5 siblings or parents caught it from him. I'm not saying that NO vaccines so any good, I'm saying that the government has no right to force those to get them that don't wish to do so.

It is good that you are not calling the shots (no pun) on vaccines! Public Health does pose a lot of interesting questions, and it is a leading force of Socialism. At the same time Public Health has improved the quality of life in the USA.

Public Sanitation of trash/waste, Water Treatment, Vaccines, Smoking Bans, Preventive Medicine (PubH is a major factor in the decrease of infant and female mortality rates) and much more. <--- Hard to argue against something that has had such a strong positive effect on our Nation.

It raises some questoins about Dr. Pauls social platform... how does he stand on programs like Public Health.

[fmontez]

Ask the parents of a child who developed autism after getting vaccines if it was worth it. I've talked to several and they all say no. Something else that no one likes to talk about is, given modern medicine, whether some of these diseases that used to kill people would actually be quite so bad now. Also, a great many of us actually had ALL those childhood diseases and suffer no ill effects from them at all. Granted, we missed a few days of school and spent a few uncomfortable days but now we're protected from those diseases for life and never had to put any toxins in our bodies to acheive it. Another thing is that today's knowledge of personal hygeine and cleanliness is much improved over the periods when many diseases caused widespread epidemics, thus, also cutting down on the risk of contracting certain diseases. Last point is that were the government REALLY concerned more with the diseases than with control, they would have control of our borders to prevent the infectious diseases like TB and the PLAGUE from walking across our borders with illegal aliens and they wouldn't allow illegal alien minors to even begin school without the 'required' vaccines (currently in many states they give them 'grace periods' to get the vaccinations and let them go ahead and start school).

That is a myth that was discredited a long time ago. Vaccines do not cause Austim.

[Dr.3D]

So what is the problem if a few children are not immunized? Seems like all of the others who are wouldn't be at risk anyway.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

This is another major MYTH, that I don't have to take it because everyone else is... the number of vaccines are dropping every year, and some diseases are starting to reappear. You are also failing to take into consideration the risk of you acquiring a disease and then having it mutate...

I don't care if someone gets a flu shot (you really should, every single year) but that is your health... just like if you want to weigh 300 lbs, do drugs, or jump out of an airplane... Freedom ends when it infringes (signifcantly) on the Freedom of others.

The risk of you contracting the disease then having it mutate? Like the risk the government takes when it comes to aids mutating and spreading airborn? The government could get rid of aids really fast if they had wanted to.

[RJB]

You are also failing to take into consideration the risk of you acquiring a disease and then having it mutate...

A lot of these diseases never came close to disappearing. They've resided in poor countries where sanitation is non-existant. If a pathogen was to mutate there, the vaccine would be useless anyway.

You need to quit getting your info from the drug companies.

[RJB]

Pretty easy, and it isn't a Constitutional issue, it is a responciblity issue.

If you do not want vaccinations, fine, you can watch your kids die, or perhaps die yourself. I love that kind of Social Darwinism. If you ELECT to attend a college or school where you will be a dandy vector for all the things you are NOT vaccinated for, then yes, if you ELECT to join this group, t is right and just for them to have certain rules in place for letting commune with your fellow students.

I still remember the tailend of vaccinations, and my mother grew up during the times when many of those childhood diseases were ravaging schools.

Let fools be fools, just don't wan them spreading their diseases to me. Noone has the right to be a plague carrier.

Wow, drama at its best.

[RJB]

That is a myth that was discredited a long time ago. Vaccines do not cause Austim.

Yeah, it was discreditted by drug companies avoiding lawsuits! Fox guarding the chickens...

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Yeah, it was discreditted by drug companies avoiding lawsuits! Fox guarding the chickens...

They cause Autism, but not Austim ;)

[ItsTime]

then what does? You can not prove a negative. Go back to your bridge troll


That is a myth that was discredited a long time ago. Vaccines do not cause Austim.

[RJB]

They cause Autism, but not Austim ;)

Ahhh, that's it:)

[fmontez]

Ok, is there any conspiracy that you guys will not support? Dang! There is no relationship between vaccinations... hmmmm.

LMAO. You guys make me smile.. if nothing else you are dependable.

[ItsTime]

it is simple... If you can not answer this question you should not talk. What causes autism? You dont know? Ok then... either do we.. Some are smart enough not to take the odds. Others will just keep poking their children anything the drug companies see fit to lobby congress for.

oh ya and its about mandates... which sheep GOP have fallen in love with... So much Mitt can SCREAM "I love mandates" at a debate and nothing happens in the polls.

Wait I thought only dems like mandates...


Ok, is there any conspiracy that you guys will not support? Dang! There is no relationship between vaccinations... hmmmm.

LMAO. You guys make me smile.. if nothing else you are dependable.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Ok, is there any conspiracy that you guys will not support? Dang! There is no relationship between vaccinations... hmmmm.

LMAO. You guys make me smile.. if nothing else you are dependable.

Seriously, you can believe what you want, just like everyone else. But look at it from a neutral stance, what reason have the big drug corporations and the government given us to trust them?

[hairball]

Being in a deomcratic republic also involves responcibilty. If you want to be irresponcible and flaky, fine, where public health is concerned, I do not want ot be affected by some plague carrier because they are so self-absorbed and selfish they don't care how many they infect so long as they do not lose some perceived freedom they erroneously believe they have.

You want to bury your head, live in a compund and let disease take you and your kids, fine, better for the gene pool. But do not pretend that you stand for some principle because you do not care to be responcible and vaccinate yourself from diseases like smallpox.

While YOu may have some paranoid belief about the RX and the Govt, it does not refute the facts that many childhood diseases have been stopped since the 50's. My wife remembers those times, and has no compunctions about vaccinations.

Not dramatic, just practical and responcible. If you wish to mix with a collegs and they have rules, you follow their rules or go to another which fills your high-ideals and irresponcible behavior.

[shida]

Do what your intuition tells you. You must have reservations or you wouldn't have posted. I'd never have another one.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Being in a deomcratic republic also involves responcibilty. If you want to be irresponcible and flaky, fine, where public health is concerned, I do not want ot be affected by some plague carrier because they are so self-absorbed and selfish they don't care how many they infect so long as they do not lose some perceived freedom they erroneously believe they have.

You want to bury your head, live in a compund and let disease take you and your kids, fine, better for the gene pool. But do not pretend that you stand for some principle because you do not care to be responcible and vaccinate yourself from diseases like smallpox.

While YOu may have some paranoid belief about the RX and the Govt, it does not refute the facts that many childhood diseases have been stopped since the 50's. My wife remembers those times, and has no compunctions about vaccinations.

Not dramatic, just practical and responcible. If you wish to mix with a collegs and they have rules, you follow their rules or go to another which fills your high-ideals and irresponcible behavior.
That's straight out ignorant to call me selfish. Of course i'm selfish when it comes to this, it's my health and if you get the vaccine and it works, you wouldn't get the disease even if I had it and licked your face. They put a lot of nasty stuff in vaccines, your ignorant for not looking into what they put in you.

[derdy]

My work had free flu-shots last year and I haven't had one in about 15 years Still, I NEVER get sick and I had already read much about the ill-effects of vaccines.

My co-worker who sits right next to me, decided he wanted to get his. He ended up sick with the flu for 1.5 weeks.

Talk about reinforcing my desires never to get vaccinated.

[thehittgirl]

My work had free flu-shots last year and I haven't had one in about 15 years Still, I NEVER get sick and I had already read much about the ill-effects of vaccines.

My co-worker who sits right next to me, decided he wanted to get his. He ended up sick with the flu for 1.5 weeks.

Talk about reinforcing my desires never to get vaccinated.

Exactly. I am always asked if I've had or will be getting the flu shot. No way! We survived years without them, I don't need to start now. I've heard they can make one very ill. I saw someone had a horrible reaction after a pneumonia vaccine. No thanks!

I think it is all part of the fear mongering and making the corporations richer. Especially when they were threatening the horrid bird flu. I knew that was BS.

[hairball]

That's straight out ignorant to call me selfish. Of course i'm selfish when it comes to this, it's my health and if you get the vaccine and it works, you wouldn't get the disease even if I had it and licked your face. They put a lot of nasty stuff in vaccines, your ignorant for not looking into what they put in you.

Not ignorant, merely observant. You are going to a college. You choose to go to this college. They have rules. Are you saying that the school cannot have rules for exclusion, that they do not have the freedom to choose how they accept students?

I know exactly what they put in vaccines, and the danger from them is far less than the danger from the disease it cures. You are obviously too young to have lived during the times when you still had many of those nasty bugs running around, but I do, and my wife does, and they were no joke.

You have the delight of living in a time when your not likely to face those dangers, and hate to tell you this, because it is apparent that you refuse to learn, but the vaccines helped. A lot.

It is not ignorant to accurately observe that someone has no concern for the safety of their friends and family. Pity.

[Iowa4Paul]

Being in a deomcratic republic also involves responcibilty. If you want to be irresponcible and flaky, fine, where public health is concerned, I do not want ot be affected by some plague carrier because they are so self-absorbed and selfish they don't care how many they infect so long as they do not lose some perceived freedom they erroneously believe they have.

You want to bury your head, live in a compund and let disease take you and your kids, fine, better for the gene pool. But do not pretend that you stand for some principle because you do not care to be responcible and vaccinate yourself from diseases like smallpox.

While YOu may have some paranoid belief about the RX and the Govt, it does not refute the facts that many childhood diseases have been stopped since the 50's. My wife remembers those times, and has no compunctions about vaccinations.

Not dramatic, just practical and responcible. If you wish to mix with a collegs and they have rules, you follow their rules or go to another which fills your high-ideals and irresponcible behavior.

If your ass was any tighter you could turn coal into diamonds.

Seriously, think about this for a second. People are allowed to do what they want for their own health(at least in free societies). if they didn't then it would be facism. Sure a lot of poeple won't take the vaccine, but that's their damn choice.

I can't take it because I'm allergic to the shot, so fuck me apparently >_>
But I do know that if I was being forced to take it, I would fight to the death to make sure no vaccine was forcfully injected in me without my consent. I still hold true to that.

You act like you're some kind of self-rightious ass. Listen, no one tells me what to put in my fucking body unless I give an ok. Like if I had to get a certain kind of vaccine for a job, and I knew before hand, it would be ok. but if all of the sudden they told me to do it and it was no where in a contract, I would tell them to fuck off. It just pisses me off when someone else decides whats right and wrong for someone else like this.

If it makes me selfish to control my own body then so be it. Also, I don't "pretend" to stand for principles. I just do it.

Also, no disrespect. I just don't like people who think they can tell people what's right and wrong for them.

[hairball]

The problem is that people have forgotten there is a right and wrong.

I am not talking flu shots, either, I am talking serious stuff. I have never taken a fl shot, and done fine, but things for polio, smallpox, rubella and the killer stuff that is highly contagious, yes I would tie you rto the table and givbe you the shot if you are too blind and have the temerity to avoid your responciblity because of some deluded notion of ultimate selfishness.

If you had been around for whooping cough, or smallpox or when there would be students on crutches, crippled for life because of polio, you would not be so ambivilant about YOUR freedom to be a plague carrier.

Perhaps you would abide by avoiding vacciantion, but being quarrentined when you do catch something. One way or another, your right to aviod responcibility will run against someone else's right to not be assaulted by your infections.

As an individual, if you choose to live in the hills and eschew all society, that is your right. If you come down out of the mountains and endeavor to involve yourself with others, you have responciblities. Your responce of "If it makes me selfish to control my own body then so be it. Also, I don't "pretend" to stand for principles. I just do it." is the kind of stuff my kids said when they were five.

I would hope better for an adult.

[XNavyNuke]

I am not talking flu shots, either, I am talking serious stuff. I have never taken a fl shot, and done fine, but things for polio, smallpox, rubella and the killer stuff that is highly contagious, yes I would tie you rto the table and givbe you the shot if you are too blind and have the temerity to avoid your responciblity because of some deluded notion of ultimate selfishness.

WOW! I have never met a person that has been vaccinated for Anthrax, Japanese Encephalitis, Monkey Pox, Rabies, Tuberculosis, AND Yellow Fever. (You know, the really killer stuff with CDC approved vaccines.) I'm truely impressed at the level of your unselfishness. To risk all those possible side-effects without even being told by a petty bureaucrat that it was in the best interest of your fellow man. I am inspired!:rolleyes:

XNN

[hairball]

You should be. I took a tour in South America back in the 80's when I was inspired to help out the po' folks. I got every shot concievable. The risks of side affects were nothing in my mind compared to the very REAL risks of what happens when you do NOT behave in a rational, thoughtful way.

Consequences. Awareness of which will make life better for you and your neighbors, because Lord help you if your selfishness gets your neighbors sick.

[bj72]

Wow, heated arguments here! I'm researching this right now. I'm fully vaccinated, my husband is as well (military), and as are our first 2 children. Our third we are taking a pause on the whole issue, despite the fact I was formerly very pro-vaccination.

Why? Because after my second child (now 4) had his last round of shots at age 3, and a flu shot around the same time, he developed a HUGE lymph node off the side of his neck...no Dr has been able to tell us why. He also started to get a lot of ear aches...I mean a lot. Totally out of the blue. We've been to a Pediatric ENT, several Drs...no answers. The ear aches went away, but the huge knot on his neck remains. However, it all started after his damn shots. UMMMM, wonder if there might be a connection. He also started with a tiny bit of bloody stool after his 3 month shots. It lasted a while, then disappeared. They couldn't figure out why either. I breastfed exclusively at that time, and my diet wasn't a factor (we ruled it out slowly), go figure. Now fast forward to child #3. I was in stellar health this 3rd pregnancy. Delivered naturally. Right away they insisted on a Hep B shot...I hadn't really realized they would (we had just transferred to CA), so didn't have research to dispute. Then we went home. He nursed fine for 2 months, diapers all fine. Then he had his 2 month shots. A week or so later I noticed a little blood in his diaper (just like my 2nd child). Not a lot, but occasional bit here and there. The Dr said it might be an allergy (not likely, as what he suggested, I have little of in my diet). I have read that some vaccinations can cause digestive track issues though.

After reading up extensively we've decided to take a pause from vaccinations and may delay vac till age 2 with only one vaccine at time every 6 months. What I found from the CDC's own website was a bit disturbing. Besides the ingredients already mentioned in other posts (thimerosal/mercury, formaldehyde, etc) , human diploid tissue is used (originating from aborted fetal tissue)...my Dr confirmed the human diploid tissue link to aborted fetal tissue, but he believes the good outweighs the bad (really...I think it may just help sustain an industry I'm morally against...and think we deserve to know in brochures it's there to make an informed choice). Other ingredients are animal remnants. If that wasn't enough to make us take pause, then the fact that California has one of the highest autism rates, and is one of the most heavily vaccinated states does. When my daughter was born here in 2001 they didn't do nearly as many as they do now. In fact, with each child the amount they inject at a time has increased. It is way different then when I was a child (I was born in 1972....old, but not that old).

The CDC website says if you (or your child) has a reaction to a vaccination, not to take that vaccination again. Now, I ask you how you could tell which vaccine it was when they inject so many at one visit now. Seems to me the CDC (and drug companies) could cover their tracks well by doing this....can't prove any one vaccine is harmful if they inject 8 at once. I asked my Dr how we would know if my son had a reaction which one it was...he said we wouldn't. I then asked him if the CDC says we should avoid it, how we would...he shrugged his shoulders....great...

My son was supposed to get the following at his 4 month check (it would be his second round as he had a round at 2 months...and was supposed to get a 3rd round at 6 months): DTAP (Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis, aka whooping cough), IPV (Polio), Hep B, HIB, Prev, Rota (oral dose).....8 at once! How is a little immune system supposed to deal with that? Especially after just having had it 2 months ago. They say not to give it to them either if the child has a cold (sometimes you don't know they are fighting one right away...). I asked why we couldn't give him one at a time, the Dr said it might be better to stick him with multiples for less sticks. I'm less worried about the stick, and more worried about the stuff they are sticking him with I pointed out. Then I asked why an infant needs Hep B (primarily sexually or blood transmitted disease)....he said because he didn't know if I, the mother, have it (I don't...tested in the military....and wouldn't...low, low risk group). Then said because infants are a captive audience...they don't know if later he'd get it when he might become sexually active (wouldn't that be his choice as an adult?).

Also, having formally been in advertising/marketing, I noticed the CDC gives statistics regarding if you have the disease vs not (assuming the vaccines protect you)...chance of injury, death, etc. What they left out, is the statistic regarding the odds of actually getting the disease. That 3rd component needs to be on there to show what the odds are of getting the disease vs. risks of vaccinations.

The assumptions vaccines will protect you are not a 100% either. Take the chickenpox vaccine. I've heard from some mothers now that they've had children vaccinated who got it anyway. Presumably it'd be less of an outbreak. But one homeschooling mom of 3 said her oldest (vaccinated), middle child (partially vaccinated) and youngest (not vaccinated) all got the chickenpox. The oldest had it the worst and longest. The youngest....had the shortest case....go figure.

Any adult that has not had their child vaccinated recently, really should look at the growing schedule new parents are given, then take pause at it, and look at it in common sense terms...then do some research and decide for yourself.

We are still researching it. I can see both sides now. I think the drug companies make way too much money off of these, with little oversight or challenges on the issues. If they were truly worried about vaccinating, they'd be able to tell people that are hesitant, which ones they'd stress and easily start a more child-friendly approach. However, when I asked my Dr to pick just 1 if I decided to do another in the next 2 years, he couldn't. Then he hedged and said chickenpox or Hep B. Really? Chickenpox? Hep B? Those are the 2 I'd cut immediately as "needed" vaccines. I could see polio maybe, or pertussis (whooping cough) as those seem scarier to me, but chickenpox? Come on. Not saying I won't be hating life for a couple of weeks with 1-3 kids with chickenpox if they ever descend on our household, but I, all 3 of my siblings, and everyone I know had them...we all survived, some with a scar or two, but otherwise okay.

I do take notice now of how they like to force via laws, and peer pressure, people into vaccinations. They are forcing ingredients that are definitely not kosher. I think if more Christian or Jewish Bible believing people knew what were in them, they'd think twice at least before taking them. The ingredients aren't on the brochures though...you have to do some digging on the CDC or drug companies website to find them (and most people don't have the time, or just don't make the effort). Those who do not believe in the Bible, still might take pause...even if they don't have a problem with aborted fetuses, or animal remnants, they might with some of the other chemicals in them.

It does remind me of the RFID issue (implantable and tattoo). The fact that Verichip was lobbying the Pentagon in 2006 to "chip" military members reminds me of the whole "captive" audience strategy. First you push things like this on the military, elderly, and infants, then the rest of society.

I'm not saying all vaccinations are bad. To be honest, I do not know enough to say whether they are or not. I'm just saying the herd approach is wrong (forcing on everyone so the few that would be affected by the disease are protected...regardless of how many more are injured in the process), and the current way they inoculate children seems to be too much at once. I'm still researching, but told my Dr. that I wouldn't allow my children to take candy from a stranger. And, I'm not about to allow any more of my family be injected with things that "are good for us" without really doing some research. I'm not saying the government is all bad. I'm not saying all drug companies are bad. But, I'm not gonna trust them blindly because they tell me to either.

[juice797]

When I was an infant I got the MMR vaccine and that night had repeated seizures over the course of many hours. My parents said I passed out and screamed and passed out between seizures and thought I was going to die. Never had seizures before or since. Now I am an adult. I have an ASD AND damaged corpus callosum. I am of course high functioning or you wouldn't be reading this right now. I am very blessed. I have had natural treatment growing up. But vaccines must not be mandatory. There is a massive amount of evidence about the side effects. People only talk about the benefits. Then the epidemiologists tell the doctors to promote it. They really want to help and are mostly honest people who are tricked by bad research. But they are making things worse. Where are the neurotoxicologists? Vaccine manufacturers deny it is even possible. And people say well it is a risk analysis and it's worth it overall. And people understand what that means so they think it is true. BUT IT'S NOT TRUE. It's the war on terror war on disease war on drugs lie lie lie. They make money. So polio is cured. That doesn't make me normal in public and can see things like other people see them. Even if they were actually really much safer, they should still be a CHOICE. You know vaccines against drug addiction are currently being propagandized? Next it's vaccines against deviant thought... that is if the current vaccines which cause brain damage don't already qualify.

People get confused and think laws should be made to force things which are good and make illegal things which are bad. This is not what freedom is. Ron Paul is for freedom, I love freedom and Ron Paul.

[youngbuck]

Public Health should have been in the original Constitution, IMHO, but it did not exist as a formal science at the time of the drafting. My own studies are in PubH and Substance abuse… I can testify that vaccinations are a key component to public health. Vaccinations should be mandatory, because failure to have them endangers the entire community; the unvaccinated are basically mini biological weapons wandering our streets. There are many great articles you can google on this subject, basically the general public has some really warped ideas about the benefits to cost ratio of vaccinations.

The biggest myth: Vaccines cause more damage than good. BUSTED! Take any epidemiology class; vaccine benefits vastly outweigh any dangers. This is an example of “sheeple” thinking.

I would be interested to hear Ron Pauls opinion on this subject, as an M.D. he would know the extreme importance of vaccines to comunity health. Interesting subject, since Medicine and Public Health has a history of Indivitutal care vs. Community Care... (and like most arguments the truth seems to lie inbetween.) Does a person have a right to drive drunk? Go unvaccinated? Shout fire in a crowded theater?


Sorry that is wrong. That's just what they taught you in school, so you've come to accept it as truth. You need to do more research of your own instead of seeing only what you want to see. Vaccines are known to be a large factor in the autism epidemic. Vaccines are also known to contain MANY harmful components, not the least of which is Thimerosal, which contains a lot of mercury (50% elemental mercury last I heard.)

[shida]

The Film About Vaccines You Simply Must see.

This censored interview was cut from the TV programme The Health Century due to its huge liability - the admission that the MERCK drug company has been injecting cancer viruses into people worldwide.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/1/19/the-film-about-vaccines-you-must-see.aspx

[RJB]

I know exactly what they put in vaccines.

Ah... An employee for the drug company...

[evsride]

P/P factor
Profits over People.....

I dont deny some of the merits of early vaccine programs, however, the agenda of the elite has clearly proven to be one that advocates population control through compromising the masse's immune functions, poisoning our environment, and various other social engineering schemes.

Vaccinations, and probably around the corner forced vaccinations are simply another front in their war on you. What a joke to say that you know whats in the vaccines....

I guess Im a walking bioweapon, thanks mom and dad. :D

By the way, to the original person who was going to college, I lived in the dorms and despite their fear mongering about meningitis I never was forced to submit to any vaccinations. At the beginning they do ask for proof that you are up to date, but you simply abstain and if they ask for a reason, you ask them for their religious exemption form. We did that throughout my public school experience.

[Loke]

My work had free flu-shots last year and I haven't had one in about 15 years Still, I NEVER get sick and I had already read much about the ill-effects of vaccines.

My co-worker who sits right next to me, decided he wanted to get his. He ended up sick with the flu for 1.5 weeks.

Talk about reinforcing my desires never to get vaccinated.

That is exactly what happened with me and my wife. She works as an RN and there was a health fair giving free flu vaccinations. We both got them- we both got sick for over 2 solid weeks. We were not alone. There was 4 other girls out of 30 who got sick after their shots. Same pattern, same time after shots!

You'll not hear it was the shot , only that you must've been already getting sick. I haven't had the flu in 10 years till that shot.

I still think some vaccinations are a good idea. But I don't like all these mandatory vaccines for my infant child being dictated by the gubment.

[CowCat33]

First off, Ron Paul is not for forced vaccines, so if he is elected, it isn't going to happen.

Second, if forced vaccines ever happen they'll have to throw me in jail or kill me first! I was always a sickly child w/allergies, ear infections, etc, then at age 18, I was told I had to get an MMR vaccine for college. 2 days later I got mononucleosis and I hadn't even stepped foot in school yet. IMO, the vaccine greatly weakened my immune system. I have never been the same since...after that I got asthma (has since gone away), but I was NEVER the same after that G'D shot! I have CFS/Fibromyalgia/Adrenal Fatigue. I am only 33 and I feel like I'm 70!!! My life is sh*t! Thank god I have health insurance, but do you have any idea how much of a drain people like me with chronic illness are on the health insurance system??? So, was my quality of life and the economic ramifications worth a stupid shot so I wouldn't get measles, mumps, or rubella!?!?!?

So, to all the die-hard pro-vaccine people, screw you!!!! I'll be as G'D selfish as I want to be, you can get all the vaccines under the sun, I don't care, but I will never get another one as long as I live. Don't worry, I've already had my mandatory shots as a child, so you're "safe". Need I remind you that vaccines are NOT mandatory, there are exemptions, and you're not dropping dead of measles, polio, whatever, and even if everyone stopped getting vaccines I HIGHLY doubt people would start dropping like flies. Get a grip and quit worrying about your impending doom. Guess what, you're going to die one day, get over it!

If any open-minded people would like more information on vaccine injury, here you go:

http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/
http://www.909shot.com/
http://www.vaccines.net/newpage114.htm

One more thing, it is my personal theory that vaccines are the government's way to keep people sickly with chronic illness - a way to keep us from actually having the energy or fight to stand up to them. They are also in collusion and probably taking kickbacks from the corrupt pharmaceutical companies who make enormous profits off these vaccines. WAKE UP. The government, the FDA, and the vaccine-makers DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU.

If I had a child, which I do not and never will because I am too sick to care for one, I would NEVER allow them to be vaccinated!!! God made our immune systems to work properly on their own without interference!

[ItsTime]

My brothers gf works at a hospital, not with those being cared for but in administrative roll, she was the only one to refuse the flu shot, and was the only one in her department not to get sick.

I know this means little because "there is no proof" besides all the sick days on record. But it happened here, and I am hearing same things like you have just stated.

I will repeat something I said earlier, 1:165 chance of getting autism, what are the chances of getting polo in the USA again?


That is exactly what happened with me and my wife. She works as an RN and there was a health fair giving free flu vaccinations. We both got them- we both got sick for over 2 solid weeks. We were not alone. There was 4 other girls out of 30 who got sick after their shots. Same pattern, same time after shots!

You'll not hear it was the shot , only that you must've been already getting sick. I haven't had the flu in 10 years till that shot.

I still think some vaccinations are a good idea. But I don't like all these mandatory vaccines for my infant child being dictated by the gubment.

[Cyclone177]

We decided not to vax my 18 mo old son, and he is the healthiest little guy I have ever seen. He has been sick maybe 3 times his whole life. People think he is a 3 year old he is so robust. We also feed him Raw Milk from the farm and organic fruit,eggs, and veggies. Sadly, my sister in law just had a baby yesterday. They are not into the same things my wife and I are, so they went right along with the nurses advice to get the shots in first thing. So, this poor helpless little baby got shots for Hepatitis and who knows what else not even 8 hours after being born. Talk about a genocide! I freaking hate the Medical Industrial Complex so much.

I know Dr. Paul is against Vaxing, that is one of the things I liked about him right away.

[CowCat33]

We decided not to vax my 18 mo old son, and he is the healthiest little guy I have ever seen. He has been sick maybe 3 times his whole life. People think he is a 3 year old he is so robust. We also feed him Raw Milk from the farm and organic fruit,eggs, and veggies. Sadly, my sister in law just had a baby yesterday. They are not into the same things my wife and I are, so they went right along with the nurses advice to get the shots in first thing. So, this poor helpless little baby got shots for Hepatitis and who knows what else not even 8 hours after being born. Talk about a genocide! I freaking hate the Medical Industrial Complex so much.

I know Dr. Paul is against Vaxing, that is one of the things I liked about him right away.

I applaud your decision to raise a healthy non-vaccinated child. Hepatitis vaccine 8 hrs after birth??? That is INSANITY.

[bbartlog]

Since someone asked (and in case anyone else is wondering), Ron Paul is dead set against mandatory vaccination.

Those who argue in favor of vaccines should keep in mind some of the following:

- the arguments and statistics in favor of vaccines that are based on the historical disappearance or decrease of diseases will typically overstate the value of vaccines. Improvements in nutrition, decreases in crowding, and improved hygiene have all played enormous roles in vanquishing contagious disease. Vaccine proponents will generally ascribe the entire credit to vaccines, even in cases where it can't be convincingly demonstrated that the vaccine had a positive effect at all.
- the negative side effects of vaccines are unknown. When studies are done to evaluate the negative impact of vaccination, they measure only acute manifestations within two days or sometimes two weeks of vaccine administration. The possibility that being injected with thimerosal, aluminum, or some unknown adjuvant compound designed to stimulate (read: irritate) your immune system might cause significant long-term problems should be considered.
- even if they are effective, there is a spectrum of effectiveness versus risk. Some vaccines have been rejected by governmental bodies because they aren't worth the risk. Other, such as the HPV vaccine currently being touted for girls, appear to cause a net increase in human mortality even if we accept the government statistics. It's not unreasonable to be suspicious that some particular vaccine simply isn't worth the risk in your situation; for example, the polio vaccine, with current incidence of polio in the US, seems an unnecessary risk.

[moostraks]

To the harassing individuals who think that the non-vaccinated are walking death traps...you really should gain confidence in your government vaccines. If it mutates I am sure there will be another shot for you to take to cure that too.
1-They start with aborted fetal cells. This is WRONG!!!! You are taking a life to safe your own. They just don't want to let you in on this fact and get real cranky when you refuse them (some vaccines don't have an option re:fetal cell tissue, some can be seperated from those that don't have the option.)
2-These are our children not your own. We created them and we should chose when and what goes in their body and if it ethically aligns with our values.Also if it is the healthiest alternative.
3-It is our body and see point 2
4-I have had them overload because they could not keep straight the schedule for my child since he was premature. I have had the hospital refuse to release my newborn until the mandatory shots were given. I have had the children have adverse reactions.The hospital and Doctors don't care it is a business. One day they have one set of policies, the next day another. It all depends on what the lobbyists are forcing through now. I was a bad parent because I refused to give antibiotics for earaches to my #3 child. However, several months later, they said I was right. Why? Oh, because these antibiotics given so repetitively were losing effectiveness. However since I am not a medical doctor my voice doesn't count...Thanks!!! I get exasperated with people who live in such fear they must get the Federal government to push their will on the public at large. We can live in a free society as long as it mirrors your will for the public,okay...gotcha ya. Just so we know where us illiterate bumpkins stand.
6-Now they want to give the green light to our children with protective immunizations for sexually related cervical cancer. Now in the minds of some of these girls they will not be mature enough to know what this will protect them against. The fact they think this won't increase promiscuity is naiive, but the government knows best. Don't question the mighty government, and once again realize you are a bad bad parent if you don't agree with this vaccine. They want to mandate this. In the first round of usage the reactions were horrible!!! The girls were passing out ,having seizures, temporary comatoseness. These were bad adverse reactions. Yet again, these statistics are being swept under the rug because a big named medical corporation is pushing having this mandated for public(government) schools. This is wrong...

Fear mongering needs to cease. We should be allowed to make the decisions for ourselves without threat. If the vaccines are so reliable then those who want to take them should feel confident they are protected instead of usurping others rights because of the propaganda machine's use of fear so you can control thy neighbor....

[moostraks]

Oops double post...

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

To the harassing individuals who think that the non-vaccinated are walking death traps...you really should gain confidence in your government vaccines. If it mutates I am sure there will be another shot for you to take to cure that too.
1-They start with aborted fetal cells. This is WRONG!!!! You are taking a life to safe your own. They just don't want to let you in on this fact and get real cranky when you refuse them (some vaccines don't have an option re:fetal cell tissue, some can be seperated from those that don't have the option.)
2-These are our children not your own. We created them and we should chose when and what goes in their body and if it ethically aligns with our values.Also if it is the healthiest alternative.
3-It is our body and see point 2
4-I have had them overload because they could not keep straight the schedule for my child since he was premature. I have had the hospital refuse to release my newborn until the mandatory shots were given. I have had the children have adverse reactions.The hospital and Doctors don't care it is a business. One day they have one set of policies, the next day another. It all depends on what the lobbyists are forcing through now. I was a bad parent because I refused to give antibiotics for earaches to my #3 child. However, several months later, they said I was right. Why? Oh, because these antibiotics given so repetitively were losing effectiveness. However since I am not a medical doctor my voice doesn't count...Thanks!!! I get exasperated with people who live in such fear they must get the Federal government to push their will on the public at large. We can live in a free society as long as it mirrors your will for the public,okay...gotcha ya. Just so we know where us illiterate bumpkins stand.
6-Now they want to give the green light to our children with protective immunizations for sexually related cervical cancer. Now in the minds of some of these girls they will not be mature enough to know what this will protect them against. The fact they think this won't increase promiscuity is naiive, but the government knows best. Don't question the mighty government, and once again realize you are a bad bad parent if you don't agree with this vaccine. They want to mandate this. In the first round of usage the reactions were horrible!!! The girls were passing out ,having seizures, temporary comatoseness. These were bad adverse reactions. Yet again, these statistics are being swept under the rug because a big named medical corporation is pushing having this mandated for public(government) schools. This is wrong...

Fear mongering needs to cease. We should be allowed to make the decisions for ourselves without threat. If the vaccines are so reliable then those who want to take them should feel confident they are protected instead of usurping others rights because of the propaganda machine's use of fear so you can control thy neighbor....

I agree with everything, however on the case with the antibiotics with the ear infection, that was the only time I ever took antibiotics. Once I got ill with it and it got so bad because I didn't take anything for it, my lymph nodes got infected and I had to be hospitalized because it got so bad.

[pinkmandy]

The biggest myth: Vaccines cause more damage than good. BUSTED! Take any epidemiology class; vaccine benefits vastly outweigh any dangers. This is an example of “sheeple” thinking.

Really now? I have a son who was TALKING. He had a well child visit at 2 yo. He was vaccinated with FIVE vaccinations at once. He was cranky all afternoon. That NIGHT, he cried and cried. He had an incredibly high fever. He had seizures. Guess what? The next morning he stopped talking. Altogether. Just STOPPED. Then a few WEEKS later he started again but every came out as jibberish. He is 7 now and is FINALLY coherent most of the time, at least to family members who know him. I won't go into the other issues he has. My pediatrician AGREES it was the vaccination and I've been advised not to vaccinate my youngest child at all jic.

There is a mother in our Scout group who lost her 2 yo to a "bad batch" of mmr a few years ago. Oops, huh? She DIED. The family was compensated. Read the inserts, do your own homework. Sheeple are the ones who inject their babies with 30 chemical compounds before the age of 2.

There are many, many families out there suffering right now. Busted? They sure are. And yes, please take an epidemiology class and while you're there realize that the companies who make billions from mandatory vaccinations are also heavily fund med schools.

[emty hand]

Public Health should have been in the original Constitution, IMHO, but it did not exist as a formal science at the time of the drafting. My own studies are in PubH and Substance abuse… I can testify that vaccinations are a key component to public health. Vaccinations should be mandatory, because failure to have them endangers the entire community; the unvaccinated are basically mini biological weapons wandering our streets. There are many great articles you can google on this subject, basically the general public has some really warped ideas about the benefits to cost ratio of vaccinations.

The biggest myth: Vaccines cause more damage than good. BUSTED! Take any epidemiology class; vaccine benefits vastly outweigh any dangers. This is an example of “sheeple” thinking.

I would be interested to hear Ron Pauls opinion on this subject, as an M.D. he would know the extreme importance of vaccines to comunity health. Interesting subject, since Medicine and Public Health has a history of Indivitutal care vs. Community Care... (and like most arguments the truth seems to lie inbetween.) Does a person have a right to drive drunk? Go unvaccinated? Shout fire in a crowded theater?

Tell that to the illegal alliens and see how far you get.

[pinkmandy]

And just a question, how does one person NOT being vaccinated affect someone who is? As far as I can tell the ONLY people supposedly at risk are those who are not vaccinated.

[moostraks]

I agree with everything, however on the case with the antibiotics with the ear infection, that was the only time I ever took antibiotics. Once I got ill with it and it got so bad because I didn't take anything for it, my lymph nodes got infected and I had to be hospitalized because it got so bad.

I think what I may have missed stating was she had repetitive ear infections (after the doctor decided to scrape her ear with the long ear scraper plastic needle apparatus) and we would do well checks and although she was not presenting with an infection from externals they kept perscribing the antibiotics for low level ear infections. I refused, and THEN they had the change of policy to stop medicating every inflamed ear...As with your situation, there are times to intervene and times not to...ours was a not to intervene. They don't allow parents to use common sense nowadays without the fear of DFACS.

On a side note, this isn't the only thing that changes month to month with doctors. One month they have one set of rules and by the next check up they are scolding you for doing what they said to do at the previous checkup. It is a challenge to keep up with what the proper action of the month is. This is what I was inclining towards with my reference to the antibiotics. They do not give patients the benefit of making an informed choice without fear of rreprisals. Now I understand they fear lawsuits but a decline notice should cover them, instead certain things provide kickbacks and these items get abused until a backlash from their usage occurs (as it currently happening by consumers in regards to the vaccinations).

[CowCat33]

Really now? I have a son who was TALKING. He had a well child visit at 2 yo. He was vaccinated with FIVE vaccinations at once. He was cranky all afternoon. That NIGHT, he cried and cried. He had an incredibly high fever. He had seizures. Guess what? The next morning he stopped talking. Altogether. Just STOPPED. Then a few WEEKS later he started again but every came out as jibberish. He is 7 now and is FINALLY coherent most of the time, at least to family members who know him. I won't go into the other issues he has. My pediatrician AGREES it was the vaccination and I've been advised not to vaccinate my youngest child at all jic.

There is a mother in our Scout group who lost her 2 yo to a "bad batch" of mmr a few years ago. Oops, huh? She DIED. The family was compensated. Read the inserts, do your own homework. Sheeple are the ones who inject their babies with 30 chemical compounds before the age of 2.

There are many, many families out there suffering right now. Busted? They sure are. And yes, please take an epidemiology class and while you're there realize that the companies who make billions from mandatory vaccinations are also heavily fund med schools.

I'm very sorry to hear about your son's experience, and the mom in your scout group.

You missed the lovely post that was removed in response to my personal experience with an MMR vaccine. I was told by this pro-vaccine looney that I would be better off dead, sterilized, and the problem was because my system was inferior/weak to begin with, not the vaccine's fault. Thank god people like this are not in charge of our health care system yet. As an adult I have had all required vaccines, but who knows what new ones they may require. I feel very concerned for all the parents out there. This is the issue that brought me to RP.

[cvaldiv1]

I'm actually a certified immunization specialist and pharmacist. I am completely against forced immunizations, but I'm also against parents not letting their children who are old enough make informed decisions and get immunized.

If it were my kids I would definitely immunize. The benefits greatly outweigh the risks. Don't get me wrong there are risks (autism not one of them), but the risks of vaccinations are actually less than most OTC medications.

If you are still questioning immunizations I would recommend at least getting immunized for tetanus. You can take "herd immunity" to your advantage if at least 95% of the population is vaccinated. Tetanus however is found in dirt, so you don't actually catch it from someone else. I've seen tetanus kill a 5 year old child, and it's a terrible disease. Please protect your children from this.

A little about immunizations and autism...

There have been rumors that immunizations cause autism, but there is no evidence of a causal relationship. It is true that as immunizations increased in the population autism also increased. It has been studied however and there is no causal relationship. What's the most interesting thing is that developed countries have higher incidences of autism making many to hypothesize that it is at least partially environmental, but the exact cause is unknown.

Here's and example of one study with MMR vaccine, let me know if you want other studies which showed no increase in the etiology of autism with vaccines.

Data on 904 patients with autism spectrum disorders (ASD) were analyzed. During the period of MMR usage no significant difference was found in the incidence of regression between MMR-vaccinated children and non-vaccinated children. Among the proportion and incidence of regression across the three MMR-program-related periods (before, during and after MMR usage), no significant difference was found between those who had received MMR and those who had not. Moreover, the incidence of regression did not change significantly across the three periods.

[chiplitfam]

Refuse all vaccines. PERIOD.

[thuja]

i was never ill of anything till i got some vaccinations. i hope it's out of my system by now.

seems like hiding from everythig is now a good idea.

i got some extra ammo in case they find me.

[american empire]

okay but this thread is insane....

you can read my threads and find out that I am a doc....and not a troll...but that should make no difference...

if you refuse vaccinations as a matter of principle....as in not wanting to be forced to do something I am with you 100% ....

but justifying by saying vaccines are "evil" ...they don't work...now that isnt very good and ill explain...

if you havent had vaccinations and are healthy then I pray you remain so....

all vaccines have been proven to be affective in decreasing getting the disease.....

like all medicines there are certain benefits and side effects....as a doc you need to weigh them and give the med only if there are more reasons that the drug will be benificial rather than harmful....

small pox was eradicated using vaccinations...also known as herd immunity...

vaccines for hep b prevent contacting the disease hence preventing you from getting active and chronic disease, liver cirhosis or in later stages cancer....

polio has been virtually eliminated due to vaccines...

in certain patients eg HIV we need to balance the pros and cons before giving any vaccines....
the immune system is so low that minimal influenza virus' can killthe patient hence the requirement....but these patients should not be given BCG or TB vaccines as it contains live attenuated virus....

basically what I am getting at is that medically all vaccines that come in the market are medically proven and safe....what Ron is against is not the "evil"of the vaccines but your RIGHT to say no to them......

but you guys forget some diseases are infectious and your irresponsibility might affect me...for eg if you contact TB b/c you were not vaccinated then I can contact that disease too.....

similarly for menningiococal meningitis I can contact it from you...but all this can be prevented if we were vaccinated....

please if you think I am wrong or need clarification ask questions...i will gladly try to answer any misconceptions...also maybe you could tell me things I probably never knew as a doc.....so yes that way we all can learn....

[moostraks]

okay but this thread is insane....

you can read my threads and find out that I am a doc....and not a troll...but that should make no difference...

if you refuse vaccinations as a matter of principle....as in not wanting to be forced to do something I am with you 100% ....

but justifying by saying vaccines are "evil" ...they don't work...now that isnt very good and ill explain...

if you havent had vaccinations and are healthy then I pray you remain so....

all vaccines have been proven to be affective in decreasing getting the disease.....

like all medicines there are certain benifits and side effects....as a doc you need to weigh them and give the med only if there are more reasons that the drug will be benificial rather than harmful....

small pox was eradicated using vaccinations...also known as heard immunity...

vaccines for hep b prevent contacting the diksease hence preventing you from getting active and chronic disease, liver cirhosis or in later stages cancer....

polio has been virtually eliminated due to vaccines...

in certain patients eg HIV we need to balance the pros and cons before giving any vaccines....
the immune system is so low that minimal influenza virus' can killthe patient hence the requirement....but these patients should not be given BCG or TB vaccines as it contains live attenuated virus....

basically what I am getting at is that medically all vaccines that come in the market are medically proven and safe....what Ron is against is not the "evil"of the vaccines but your RIGHT to say no to them......

but you guys forget some diseases are infectious and your irresponsibility might affect me...for eg if you contact TB b/c you were not vaccinated then I can contact that disease too.....

similarly for menningococal meningitis I can contact it from you...but all this can be prevented if we were vaccinated....

please if you think I am wrong or need clarification ask questions...i will gladly try to answer any misconceptions...also maybe you could tell me things I probably never knew as a doc.....so yes that way we all can learn....

So where do you draw the line at taking these vaccines?? I did not realize TB is a standard vaccine now...So do you think it is okay to use aborted fetal cells to create these vaccines? Should this not be a matter of conscience to those of us who are aware of this fact? Or should I strictly concern myself with protecting my fellow man regardless of the consequence of the lives lost to create these vaccines for the possibility of exposure to a disease? So glad to know you offer us the capacity to refuse the governments forcing us to take a vaccine, but we can't refuse based upon principals of value of human life...that to me makes those vaccines created from aborted fetal cells EVIL...Everyone should choose based upon their conscience...not just to thwart the government.

Furthermore, I think you will find the ardent supporters against mandating vaccines have experience with adverse reactions. Vaccinating children should be a parents choice, not the governments. They are our children and do not belong to the public at large to do what serves the public's interest which is controled by government fear mongering.....

[hairball]

okay but this thread is insane....

you can read my threads and find out that I am a doc....and not a troll...but that should make no difference...

if you refuse vaccinations as a matter of principle....as in not wanting to be forced to do something I am with you 100% ....

but justifying by saying vaccines are "evil" ...they don't work...now that isnt very good and ill explain...

if you havent had vaccinations and are healthy then I pray you remain so....

all vaccines have been proven to be affective in decreasing getting the disease.....

like all medicines there are certain benifits and side effects....as a doc you need to weigh them and give the med only if there are more reasons that the drug will be benificial rather than harmful....

small pox was eradicated using vaccinations...also known as heard immunity...

vaccines for hep b prevent contacting the diksease hence preventing you from getting active and chronic disease, liver cirhosis or in later stages cancer....

polio has been virtually eliminated due to vaccines...

in certain patients eg HIV we need to balance the pros and cons before giving any vaccines....
the immune system is so low that minimal influenza virus' can killthe patient hence the requirement....but these patients should not be given BCG or TB vaccines as it contains live attenuated virus....

basically what I am getting at is that medically all vaccines that come in the market are medically proven and safe....what Ron is against is not the "evil"of the vaccines but your RIGHT to say no to them......

but you guys forget some diseases are infectious and your irresponsibility might affect me...for eg if you contact TB b/c you were not vaccinated then I can contact that disease too.....

similarly for menningococal meningitis I can contact it from you...but all this can be prevented if we were vaccinated....

please if you think I am wrong or need clarification ask questions...i will gladly try to answer any misconceptions...also maybe you could tell me things I probably never knew as a doc.....so yes that way we all can learn....

I thank you for your work. I have done my vaccinations with no ill health, the same as my mom and pop and brother. My kids, and my wife, no problems. People LOVE to use anecdotal evidence, but ignore the overwhelming science and facts about the dread diseases.

Paranoia is an illness too.

[RJB]

The multibillion dollar drug-medical industrial complex is no different than the military industrial complex. Here's some light reading

Vaccines and Immunization References and Research Citations

Vaccines Have Been Linked to Leukemias and Lymphomas:

Bichel, "Post-vaccinial Lymphadenitis Developing into Hodgkin's Disease", Acta Med Scand, 1976, Vol 199, p523-525.
Stewart, AM, et al, "Aetiology of Childhood Leukaemia", Lancet, 16 Oct, 1965, 2:789-790. [Listed under Vaccine Adverse Reactions.]
Glathe, H et al, "Evidence of Tumorigenic Activity of Candidate Cell Substrate in Vaccine Production by the Use of Anti-Lymphocyte Serum", Development Biol Std, 1977, 34:145-148.
Bolognesi, DP, "Potential Leukemia Virus Subunit Vaccines: Discussion", Can Research, Feb 1976, 36(2 pt 2):655-656.
Colon, VF, et al, "Vaccinia Necrosum as a Clue to Lymphatic Lymphoma", Geriatrics, Dec 1968, 23:81-82.
Park-Dincsoy, H et al, "Lymphoid Depletion in a case of Vaccinia Gangrenosa", Laval Med, Jan 1968, 39:24-26.
Hugoson, G et al, "The Occurrence of Bovine Leukosis Following the Introduction of Babesiosis Vaccination", Bibl Haemat, 1968, 30:157-161.
Hartstock, , ""Post-vaccinial Lymphadenitis: Hyperplasia of Lymphoid Tissue That Simulates Malignant Lymphomas", Apr 1968, Cancer, 21(4):632-649.
Allerberger, F, "An Outbreak of Suppurative Lymphadenitis Connected with BCG Vaccination in Austria- 1990/1991," Am Rev Respir Disorder, Aug 1991, 144(2) 469.
Omokoku B, Castells S, "Post-DPT inoculation cervical lymphadenitis in children." N Y State J Med 1981 Oct;81(11):1667-1668.
Vaccines and Chromosome Changes Leading to Mutations:

Knuutila, S et al, "An Increased Frequency of Chromosomal Changes and SCE's in Cultured Lymphocytes of 12 Subjects Vaccinated Against Smallpox," Hum Genet, 1978 Feb 23; 41(1):89-96.
Cherkeziia, SE, et al, "Disorders in the Murine Chromosome Apparatus Induced By Immunization with a Complex of Anti-viral Vaccines," Vopr Virusol, 1979 Sept Oct, (5):547-550.
[Note: SCE means sister chromatid exchange and is an indication that genetic mutations are occurring, which could possibly lead to cancer-causing mutations.
Vaccines and Auto-immunity Citations:

Romanov, V A, et al, "Role of Auto-immune Processes in the Pathogenesis of Post-Vaccinal Lesions of the Nervous System", Oct 1977, Zh Mikrobiol Epidemiol Immunobiol, 10:80-83.
Grachev, V P, et al, "Formation of Auto-antibodies in Laboratory Animals After Inoculation of Viruses With Different Virulence. I. Results of Studies ..., July 1973, Acta Virol (Praha), 17:319-326.
Movsesiants, AA, et al, "Experimental Study of the Ability of Different Strains of Vaccinia Virus to Induce Auto-Antibody Formation", Vopr Virusol, May-Jun 1975; (3):297-302.
Negina, IuP, "Comparative Study of Auto-antibody Formation Following Immunization With Different Types of Typhoid Vaccines", Zh Mikrobiol Epidemiol Immunobiol, May 1980; (5):69-72.
Vaccinations and Diabetes Citations:

Sinaniotis, et al, "Diabetes Mellitus after Mumps Vaccination", Arc Dis Child, 1975, 50:749.66
Polster, H, "Diabetes insipidus after Smallpox vaccination", Z Aerztl Fortbild (Jena), 1 Apr 1966, 60:429-432.
Patan, "Postvaccinal Severe Diabetes Mellitus", Ter Arkh, Jul 1968, 40:117-118.
Classen, JB, MD, "The Timing of Immunization Affects The Development of Diabetes in Rodents", Autoimmunity, 1996, 24:137-145.
Classen JB, "The diabetes epidemic and the hepatitis B vaccines," N Z Med J, 109(1030):366 1996 Sep 27. [letter]
Classen JB, "Childhood immunisation and diabetes mellitus," N Z Med J, 109(1022):195 1996 May 24 [letter]
Poutasi K, " Immunisation and diabetes," N Z Med J 1996 Jul 26;109(1026):283. [letter; comment]
Other Articles Linking Diabetes to Vaccines:

Dokheel, T M, "An Epidemic of Childhood Diabetes in the United States? Evidence from ....", Diabetes Care, 1993, 16:1606-1611.
Parent ME, et al, "Bacille Calmette-Guerin vaccination and incidence of IDDM in Montreal, Canada," Diabetes Care 1997 May; 20(5):767-772.
House DV, Winter WE, "Autoimmune diabetes. The role of auto-antibody markers in the prediction and prevention of insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus," Clin Lab Med 1997 Sep; 17(3):499-545.
Zeigler, M et al , "[Autoantibodies in type 1 diabetes mellitus]" Z Arztl Fortbild (Jena). 1994 Aug; 88(7-8):561-5
Vaccines and Nervous System Changes:

Bondarev, VN et al, "The Changes of the Nervous System in Children After Vaccination", Pediatria, Jun 1969; 48:20-24.
Ehrengut W, "Central nervous sequelae of vaccinations," Lancet 1986 May 31;1(8492):1275-1276.
Provvidenza, G et al, [On a Case of Benign Acute Cerebellar Ataxia in Childhood], Arch Ital Sci Med Trop, 43:189-194, Apr 1962.
Katsilambros, L, "[The Phenomenom of Apathy in Man and Animals After the Injection of Viruses in Very High Doses. Clinical Data]", Rev Med Moyen Orient, 20:539-546, Nov - Dec 1963.
Vaccinations and Autism Citations:

Eggers, C, "Autistic Syndrome (Kanner) And Vaccinations against Smallpox", Klin Paediatr, Mar 1976, 188(2):172-180.
Kiln MR, "Autism, inflammatory bowel disease, and MMR vaccine." Lancet 1998 May 2;351(9112):1358.
Selway, "MMR vaccination and autism 1998. Medical practitioners need to give more than reassurance." BMJ 1998 Jun 13;316(7147):1824.
Nicoll A, Elliman D, Ross E, "MMR vaccination and autism 1998," MJ 1998 Mar 7;316(7133):715-716.
Lindley K J, Milla PJ, "Autism, inflammatory bowel disease, and MMR vaccine."Lancet 1998 Mar 21;351(9106):907-908.
Bedford H, et al, "Autism, inflammatory bowel disease, and MMR vaccine." Lancet 1998 Mar 21;351(9106):907.
Vijendra K. Singh, Sheren X. Lin, and Victor C. Yang, "Serological Association of Measles Virus and Human Herpesvirus-6 with Brain Autoantibodies in Autism," Clinical Immunology and Immunopathology, Oct 1998, Vol. 89, No. 1, p 105-108. ["None of the autistic children in the study had measles in the past, but all had the MMR" stated David Whalgren.
Vaccines and Demyelination Citations:

Herroelen, L et al, "Central-Nervous-System Demyelination After Immunization with Recombinant Hepatitis B Vaccine", Lancet, Nov 9, 1991, 338(8776):1174-1175.
Kaplanski G, Retornaz F, Durand J, Soubeyrand J, "Central nervous system demyelination after vaccination against hepatitis B and HLA haplotype." J Neurol Neurosurg Psychiatry 1995 Jun; 58(6):758-759.

Matyszak MK, Perry VH, "Demyelination in the central nervous system following a delayed-type hypersensitivity response to bacillus Calmette-Guerin." Neuroscience 1995 Feb;64(4):967-977.
Tornatore CS, Richert JR, "CNS demyelination associated with diploid cell rabies vaccine." Lancet 1990 Jun 2;335(8701):1346-1347.
Adams, JM et al, "Neuromyelitis Optica: Severe Demyelination Occurring Years After Primary Smallpox Vaccinations", Rev Roum Neurol, 1973, 10:227-231.
In 1988, Dietrich used MRI to show that developmentally delayed children had alterations in their myelin. Coulter described that central nervous system damage can be exhibited as abnormal behavior of the child. In 1935, Thomas Rivers, experimental allergic encephalitis (EAE) can be the result of a viral or bacterial infection of the nervous system. "The fact of the matter is that it is a matter of record that it was known that vaccination produced encephalitis since 1926." The authors stated, "In regions in which there is no organized vaccination of the population, general paralysis is rare. ... It is impossible to deny a connection between vaccinations and the encephalitis (brain damage) which follows it." Vaccines have been linked to seizures, convulsions and epilepsy.
Vaccinations and Seizures:

Hirtz DG, Nelson KB, Ellenberg J H, "Seizures following childhood immunizations", Pediatr 1983 Jan; 102(1):14-18.
Cherry JD, Holtzman AE, Shields WD, Buch D, Nielsen, "Pertussis immunization and characteristics related to first seizures in infants and children,"J Pediatr 1993 Jun;122(6):900-903.
Coplan J, "Seizures following immunizations," J Pediatr 1983 Sep;103(3):496.
Barkin RM, Jabhour JT, Samuelson J S, "Immunizations, seizures, and subsequent evaluation," JAMA 1987 Jul 10;258(2):201.
Griffin MR, et al, "Risk of seizures after measles-mumps-rubella immunization," Pediatrics 1991 Nov;88(5):881-885.
Griffin MR, et al, "Risk of seizures and encephalopathy after immunization with the diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis vaccine," JAMA 1990 Mar 23-30;263(12):1641-1645.
Cizewska S, Huber Z, Sluzewski W, "[Prophylactic inoculations and seizure activity in the EEG]," Neurol Neurochir Pol 1981 Sep-Dec;15(5-6):553-557. [Article in Polish]
Huttenlocher PR, Hapke RJ, "A follow-up study of intractable seizures in childhood." Ann Neurol 1990 Nov; 28(5):699-705.
Blumberg DA, "Severe reactions associated with diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis vaccine: detailed study of children with seizures, hypotonic-hypo-responsive episodes, high fevers, and persistent crying."Pediatrics 1993 Jun; 91(6):1158-1165.
Vaccinations and Convulsions Citations:

Prensky AL, et al, "History of convulsions and use of pertussis vaccine," J Pediatr 1985 Aug; 107(2):244-255.
Baraff LJ, "Infants and children with convulsions and hypotonic-hypo-responsive episodes following diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis immunization: follow-up evaluation," Pediatrics 1988 Jun; 81(6):789-794.
Jacobson V, "Relationship of pertussis immunization to the onset of epilepsy, febrile convulsions and central nervous system infections: a retrospective epidemiologic study," Tokai J Exp Clin Med 1988;13 Suppl: 137-142.
Cupic V,et al, "[Role of DTP vaccine in the convulsive syndromes in children]," Lijec Vjesn 1978 Jun; 100(6):345-348. [Article in Serbo-Croatian (Roman)]
Pokrovskaia NIa, "[Convulsive syndrome in DPT vaccination (a clinico-experimental study)]," Pediatriia 1983 May;(5):37-39. [Article in Russian]
Vaccinations and Epilepsy Citations:

Ballerini, Ricci, B, et al, "On Neurological Complications of Vaccination, With Special Reference to Epileptic Syndromes," Riv Neurol, Jul-Aug 1973, 43:254-258.
Wolf SM, Forsythe A, "Epilepsy and mental retardation following febrile seizures in childhood," Acta Paediatr Scand 1989 Mar;78(2):291-295.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vaccines and Brain Swelling:

Iwasa, S et al, "Swelling of the Brain in Mice Caused by Pertussis ... Quantitative Determination and the Responsibility of the Vaccine", Jpn J Med Sci Biol, 1985 , 38(2):53-65.

Mathur R, Kumari S, "Bulging fontanel following triple vaccine." Indian Pediatr 1981 Jun;18(6):417-418.

Barry W, Lenney W, Hatcher G, "Bulging fontanelles in infants without meningitis." Arch Dis Child 1989 Apr;64(4):635-636.

Shendurnikar N, "Bulging fontanel following DPT" Indian Pediatr 1986 Nov;23(11):960.

Gross TP, Milstien JB, Kuritsky JN, "Bulging fontanelle after immunization with diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis vaccine and diphtheria-tetanus vaccine." J Pediatr 1989 Mar;114(3):423-425.

Jacob J, Mannino F, "Increased intracranial pressure after diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis immunization." Am J Dis Child 1979 Feb;133(2):217-218.

Dugmore, WN, "Bilateral Oedema at the Posterior Pole. Hypersensitivity Reaction to Alavac P injection." Br J Ophthalmol, Dec 1972, 55:848-849.
Vaccines and Neurological Damage

Nedar P R, and Warren, R J, "Reported Neurological Disorders Following Live Measles Vaccine", 1968, Ped, 41:997-1001.

Paradiso, G et al, "Multifocal Demyelinating Neuropathy after Tetanus Vaccine", Medicina (B Aires), 1990, 50(1):52-54.

Landrigan, PJ, Whitte, J, "Neurologic Disorders Following Live Measles-virus Vaccination", JAMA, Mar 26, 1973, v223(13):1459-1462.

Turnbull, H M, "Encephalomyelitis Following Vaccination", Brit Jour Exper Path, 7:181, 1926.

Kulenkampff, M et al, "Neurological Complications of Pertussis Inoculation", Arch Dis Child, 1974, 49:46.

Strom, J, "Further Experience of Reactions, Especially of a Cerebral Nature in Conjunction with Triple Vaccination", Brit Med Jour, 1967, 4:320-323.

Berg, J M, "Neurological Complications of Pertussis Immunization," Brit Med Jour, July 5,1958; p 24.

Bondarev, VN et al, "The Changes of the Nervous System in Children After Vaccination", Pediatria, Jun 1969; 48:20-24.

Badalian, LO, "Vaccinal Lesions of the Nervous System in Children," Vop Okhr Materin Dets, Dec 1959, 13:54-59

Lorentz, IT, et al, "Post-Vaccinal Sensory Polyneuropathy with Myoclonus", Proc Aust Ass Neurol, 1969, 6:81-86.

Trump, R C, White, T R, "Cerebellar Ataxia Presumed Due To Live Attenuated Measles Virus Vaccine," JAMA, 1967, 199:165-166.

Allerdist, H, "Neurological Complications Following Measles Vaccination", Inter Symp, Brussels, 1978, Development Biol Std, Vol 43, 259-264.

Finley, K H, "Pathogenesis of Encephalitis Occurring With Vaccination, Variola and Measles, Arch Neur and Psychologist, 1938; 39:1047-1054.

Froissart, M et al, "Acute Meningoencephalitis Immediately after an Influenza Vaccination", Lille Med, Oct 1978, 23(8):548-551.

Pokrovskaia, Nia, et al, "Neurological Complications in Children From Smallpox Vaccination", Pediatriia, Dec 1978, (12):45-49.

Allerdist, H, "Neurological Complications Following Measles Virus Vaccination. Evaluation of the Cases seen Between 1971-1977", Monatsschr Kinderheilkd, Jan 1979, 127(1): 23-28.

Ehrengut, W et al, "On Convulsive Reactions Following Oral vaccination Against Polio", Klin Paediatr, May 1979, 191(3):261-270.

Naumova, R P, et al, "Encephalitis Developing After Vaccination without a Local Skin Reaction", Vrach Delo, Jul 1979, (7):114-115.

Goswamy, BM, "Neurological Complications After Smallpox Vaccination", J Ass Phys India, Jan 1969, 17:41-43.

Schchelkunov, SN et al, "The Role of Viruses in the Induction of Allergic Encephalomyelitis," Dokl Akad Nauk SSSR, 1990,315(1):252-255. [Vaccines contain viruses, too]

Walker AM, "Neurologic events following diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis immunization," Pediatrics 1988 Mar;81(3):345-349.

Shields WD, et al, "Relationship of pertussis immunization to the onset of neurologic disorders: a retrospective epidemiologic study," J Pediatr 1988 Nov; 113(5):801-805.

Wilson J, "Proceedings: Neurological complications of DPT inoculation in infancy," Arch Dis Child 1973 Oct; 48(10):829-830.

Iakunin IuA, "[Nervous system complications in children after preventive vaccinations]," Pediatriia 1968 Nov; 47(11):19-26. [Article in Russian]

Greco D, et al, "Case-control study on encephalopathy associated with diphtheria-tetanus immunization in Campania, Italy," Bull World Health Organ 1985;63(5):919-925.

Ehrengut W at Institute of Vaccinology and Virology, Hamburg, Germany states, "Bias in the evaluation of CNS complications following pertussis immunization are the following: 1) Notifications of post-immunization adverse events, 2) Publications by vaccine producers on the frequency of adverse reactions, 3) Comparison of permanent brain damage after DPT and DT immunization, 4) Pro-immunization, 5) Immunization associated viral encephalitis, 6) Accuracy of statistics, 7) Personal. A review of these points indicates an underestimation of CNS complications after pertussis immunization."

Reference: Ehrengut W, "Bias in evaluating CNS complications following pertussis immunization." Acta Paediatr Jpn, 1991 Aug; 33(4):421-427.

Vaccinations and Unexplained Diseases:

Hiner, E E, Frasch, C E, "Spectrum of Disease Due to Haemophilus Influenza Type B Occurring in Vaccinated Children", J Infect Disorder, 1988 Aug; 158(2): 343-348.
Olin P, Romanus, V, Storsaeter, J, "Invasive Bacterial Infections During an Efficiacy Trial of Acellular Pertussis Vaccines -- Implications For Future Surveilance In Pertussis Vaccine Programmes", Tokai J Exp Clin Med, 1988; 13 Suppl: 143-144.
Storsaeter, J, et al, "Mortality and Morbidity From Invasive Bacterial Infections During a Clinical Trial of Acellular Pertussis Vaccines in Sweden", Pediatr Infect Disorder J, 1988 Sept; 7(9):637-645.
Vadheim, CM, et al, "Effectiveness and Safety of an Haemophilus Influenzae type b Conjugate Vaccine (PRP-T) in Young Infants. Kaiser-UCLA Vaccine Study Group," Pediartics, 1993 Aug; 92(2):272-279. [The vaccines caused fevers, irritability, crying, and seizures, but were declared to be "safe and ... effective ... ".]
Stickl, H, "Estimation of Vaccination Damage", Med Welt, Oct 14, 1972, 23:1495-1497.
Waters, VV, et al, "Risk Factors for Measles in a Vaccinated Population", JAMA, Mar 27, 1991, 265(12): 1527.
Stickl, H, "Iatrogenic Immuno-suppression as a Result of Vaccination", Fortschr Med, Mar 5, 1981, 99(9);289-292.
Vaccine Citations Linking the Vaccine to the "prevented" Disease:

Nkowane, et al, "Vaccine-Associated Paralytic Poliomyelitis, US 1973 through 1984, JAMA, 1987, Vol 257:1335-1340.
Quast, et al, "Vaccine Induced Mumps-like Diseases", nd, Int Symp on Immun, Development Bio Stand, Vol 43, p269-272.
Green, C et al, "A Case of Hepatitis Related to Etretinate Therapy and Hepatitis B Vaccine", Dermatologica, 1991, 182(2):119-120.
Shasby, DM, et al, "Epidemic Measles in Highly Vaccinated Population", NEJM, Mar 1977, 296(11): 585-589.
Tesovic, G et al, "Aseptic Meningitis after Measles, Mumps and Rubella Vaccine", Lancet, Jun 12, 1993, 341(8859):1541.
Johnson, RH, et al, "Nosocomial Vaccinia Infection", West J Med, Oct 1976, 125(4):266-270.
Malengreau, M, "Reappearance of Post-Vaccination Infection of Measles, Rubella, and Mumps. Should Adolescents be re-vaccinated?" Pedaitric, 1992;47(9):597-601 (25 ref)
Basa, SN, "Paralytic Poliomyelitis Following Inoculation With Combined DTP Prophylactic. A review of Sixteen cases with Special Reference to Immunization Schedules in Infancy", J Indian Med Assoc, Feb 1, 1973, 60:97-99.
Landrigan, PJ et al, "Measles in Previously Vaccinated Children in Illinois", Ill Med J, Arp 1974, 141:367-372.
NA, "Vaccine-Associated Poliomyelitis", Med J Aust, Oct 1973, 2:795-796.
Vaccine Failures Citations:

Hardy, GE, Jr, et al, "The Failure of a School Immunization Campaign to Terminate an Urban Epidemic of Measles," Amer J Epidem, Mar 1970; 91:286-293.
Cherry, JD, et al, "A Clinical and Serologic Study of 103 Children With Measles Vaccine Failure", J Pediatr, May 1973; 82:801-808.
Jilg, W, et al, "Inoculation Failure Following Hepatitis B Vaccination", Dtsch Med wochenschr, 1990 Oct 12; 115(41):1514-1548.
Plotkin, SA, "Failures of Protection by Measles Vaccine," J Pediatr, May 1973; 82:798-801.
Bolotovskii, V, et al, "Measles Incidence Among Children Properly Vaccinated Against This Infection", ZH Mikrobiol Epidemiol Immunobiol, 1974; 00(5):32-35.
Landrigan, PJ, et al, "Measles in Previously Vaccinated Children in Illinois", Ill Med J, Apr 1974; 141:367-372.
Strebel, P et al, "An Outbreak of Whooping Cough in a Highly Vaccinated Urban Community", J Trop Pediatr, Mar 1991, 37(2): 71-76.
Forrest, JM, et al, "Failure of Rubella Vaccination to Prevent Congenital Rubella,"Med J Aust, 1977 Jan 15; 1(3): 77.
Jilg, W, "Unsuccessful Vaccination against Hepatitis B", Dtsch Med Wochenschr, Nov 16, 1990, 115(46):1773.
Coles, FB, et al, "An Outbreak of Influenza A (H3N2) in a Well-Immunized Nursing home Population," J Am ger Sociologist, Jun 1992, 40(6):589-592.
Jilg, W, et al, "Inoculation Failure following Hepatitis B Vaccination," Dtsch Med Wochenschr, Oct 12, 1990, 115(41):1545-1548.
Hartmann, G et al, "Unsuccessful Inoculation against Hepatitis B," Dtsch Med Wochenschr, May 17, 1991, 116(20): 797.
Buddle, BM et al, "Contagious Ecthyma Virus-Vaccination Failures", Am J Vet Research, Feb 1984, 45(2):263-266.
Mathias, R G, "Whooping Cough In Spite of Immunization", Can J Pub Health, 1978 Mar/Apr; 69(2):130-132.
Osterholm, MT, et al, "Lack of Efficacy of Haemophilus b Polysacharide Vaccine in Minnesota", JAMA, 1988 Sept 9; 260(10:1423-1428.
Johnson, RH, et al, "Nosocomial Vaccinia Infection", West J Med, Oct 1976, 125(4):266-270.
Vaccines Causing Another Vaccinal Disease:

Basa, SN, "Paralytic Poliomyelitis Following Inoculation With Combined DTP Prophylactic. A review of Sixteen cases with Special Reference to Immunization Schedules in Infancy", J Indian Med Assoc, Feb 1, 1973, 60:97-99.
Pathel, JC, et al, "Tetanus Following Vaccination Against Small-pox", J Pediatr, Jul 1960; 27:251-263.
Favez, G, "Tuberculous Superinfection Following a Smallpox Re-Vaccination", Praxis, July 21, 1960; 49:698-699.
Quast, Ute, and Hennessen, "Vaccine-Induced Mumps-like Diseases", Intern Symp on Immunizations , Development Bio Stand, Vol 43, p 269-272.
Forrest, J M, et al, "Clinical Rubella Eleven months after Vaccination," Lancet, Aug 26, 1972, 2:399-400.
Dittman, S, "Atypical Measles after Vaccination", Beitr Hyg Epidemiol, 19891, 25:1-274 (939 ref)
Sen S, et al, "Poliomyelitis in Vaccinated Children", Indian Pediatr, May 1989, 26(5): 423-429.
Arya, SC, "Putative Failure of Recombinant DNA Hepatitis B Vaccines", Vaccine, Apr 1989, 7(2): 164-165.
Lawrence, R et al, "The Risk of Zoster after Varicella Vaccination in Children with Leukemia", NEJM, Mar 3, 1988, 318(9): 543-548.
Vaccination Citations and Death

Na, "DPT Vaccination and Sudden Infant Death - Tennessee, US Dept HEW, MMWR Report, Mar 23, 1979, vol 28(11): 132.
Arevalo, "Vaccinia Necrosum. Report on a Fatal Case", Bol Ofoc Sanit Panamer, Aug 1967, 63:106-110.
Connolly, J H, Dick, G W, Field, CM, "A Case of Fatal Progressive Vaccinia", Brit Med Jour, 12 May 1962; 5288:1315-1317.
Aragona, F, "Fatal Acute Adrenal Insufficiency Caused by Bilateral Apoplexy of the Adrenal Glands (WFS) following Anti-poliomyelitis Vaccination", Minerva Medicolegale, Aug 1960; 80:167-173.
Moblus, G et al, "Pathological-Anatomical Findings in Cases of Death Following Poliomyelitis and DPT Vaccination", Dtsch Gesundheitsw, Jul 20, 1972, 27:1382-1386.
NA, "Immunizations and Cot Deaths", Lancet, Sept 25, 1982, np.
Goetzeler, A, "Fatal Encephalitis after Poliomyelitis Vaccination", 22 Jun 1961, Muenchen Med Wschr, 102:1419-1422.
Fulginiti, V, "Sudden Infant Death Syndrome, Diphtheria-Tetanus Toxoid-Pertussis Vaccination and Visits to the Doctor: Chance Association or Cause and Effect?", Pediatr Infect Disorder, Jan-Feb 1983, 2(1): 7-11.
Baraff, LJ, et al, "Possible Temporal Association Between Diphtheria-tetanus toxoid-Pertussis Vaccination and Sudden Infant Death Syndrome", Pediatr Infect Disorder, Jan-Feb 1983, 2(1): 5-6.
Reynolds, E, "Fatal Outcome of a Case of Eczema Vaccinatum", Lancet, 24 Sept 1960, 2:684-686.
Apostolov. et al, "Death of an Infant in Hyperthermia After Vaccination", J Clin Path, Mar 1961, 14:196-197.
Bouvier-Colle, MH, "Sex-Specific Differences in Mortality After High-Titre Measles Vaccination", Rev Epidemiol Sante Publique, 1995; 43(1): 97.
Stewart GT, "Deaths of infants after triple vaccine.", Lancet 1979 Aug 18;2(8138):354-355.
Flahault A, "Sudden infant death syndrome and diphtheria/tetanus toxoid/pertussis/poliomyelitis immunisation.", Lancet 1988 Mar 12;1(8585):582-583.
Larbre, F et al, "Fatal Acute Myocarditis After Smallpox Vaccination", Pediatrie, Apr-May 1966, 21:345-350.
Mortimer EA Jr, "DTP and SIDS: when data differ", Am J Public Health 1987 Aug; 77(8):925-926.

[RJB]

Here's some more.


Vaccines and Metabolism Citations:

Deutsch J, " [Temperature changes after triple-immunization in infant age]," Padiatr Grenzgeb 1976;15(1):3-6. [Article in German]
NA, "[Temperature changes after triple immunization in childhood]," Padiatr Grenzgeb 1976;15(1):7-10. [Article in German]
[Considering that the thyroid controls our Basal Metabolism, it would appear that vaccines altered (depressed) thyroid activity.]
Vaccines Altering Resistance to Disease:

Burmistrova AL, "[Change in the non-specific resistance of the body to influenza and acute respiratory diseases following immunization diphtheria-tetanus vaccine]," Zh Mikrobiol Epidemiol Immunobiol 1976; (3):89-91. [Article in Russian]
Vaccinations and Deafness Citations:

So I did a background check to see if there was any scientific evidence linking vaccines to deafness and hearing loss. Here are some of the articles I found:

Kaga, "Unilateral Total Loss of Auditory and Vestibular Function as a Complication of Mumps Vaccination", Int J Ped Oto, Feb 1998, 43(1):73-73
Nabe-Nielsen, Walter, "Unilateral Total Deafness as a Complication of the Measles- Mumps- Rubella Vaccination", Scan Audio Suppl, 1988, 30:69-70
Hulbert, et al, "Bilateral Hearing Loss after Measles and Rubella Vaccination in an Adult", NEJM, 1991 July, 11;325(2):134
Healy, "Mumps Vaccine and Nerve Deafness", Am J Disorder Child, 1972 Jun; 123(6):612
Jayarajan, Sedler, "Hearing Loss Following Measles Vaccination", J Infect, 1995 Mar; 30(2):184-185
Pialoux, P et al, "Vaccinations and Deafness", Ann Otolaryng (Paris), Dec 1963, 80:1012-1013.
Angerstein, W, et al, "Solitary Hearing and Equilibrium Damage After Vaccinations", Gesundheitswesen, May 1995, 57(5): 264-268.
Brodsky, Stanievich, "Sensorineural Hearing Loss Following Live Measles Virus Vaccination", Int J Ped Oto, 1985 Nov; 10(2):159-163
Koga, et al, "Bilateral Acute Profound Deafness After MMR Vaccination- Report of a Case", Nippon Jibiin Gakkai Kai, 1991 Aug;94(8):1142-5
Seiferth, LB, "Deafness after Oral Poliomyelitis Vaccination - a Case Report and Review", HNO, 1977 Aug; 25(8): 297-300
Pantazopoulos, PE, "Perceptive Deafness Following Prophylactic use of Tetanus anittoxin", Laryngoscope, Dec 1965, 75:1832-1836.
Zimmerman, W, "Observation of a case of Acute Bilateral Hearing Impairment Following Preventive Poliomyelitis Vaccination (type 3)", Arch Ohr Nas Kehlkopfheilk, 1965, 185:723-725.
Vaccinations and Kidney Disorders Citations:

Jacquot, C et al, "Renal Risk in Vaccination", Nouv Presse Med, Nov 6, 1982, 11(44):3237-3238.
Giudicelli, et al, "Renal Risk in Vaccination", Presse Med, Jun 11, 1982, 12(25):1587-1590.
Tan, SY, et al, "Vaccine Related Glomerulonephritis", BMJ, Jan 23, 1993, 306(6872):248.
Pillai, JJ, et al, "Renal Involvement in Association with Post-vaccination Varicella", Clin Infect Disorder, Dec 1993, 17(6): 1079-1080.
Eisinger, AJ et al, "Acute Renal Failure after TAB and Cholera Vaccination", B Med J, Feb 10, 1979, 1(6160):381-382.
Silina, ZM, et al, "Causes of Postvaccinal Complications in the Kidneys in Young Infants", Pediatria, Dec 1978, (12):59-61.
Na, "Albuminurias", Concours Med, Mar 1964, 85:5095-5098. [vaccination adverse reactions]
Oyrl, A, et al, "Can Vaccinations Harm the Kidney?", Clin Nephrol, 1975, 3(5):204-205.
Mel'man Nia, "[Renal lesions after use of vaccines and sera]." Vrach Delo 1978 Oct;(10):67-9, [Article in Russian]
Silina ZM, Galaktionova TIa, Shabunina NR, "[Causes of postvaccinal complications in the kidneys in young infants]." Pediatriia 1978 Dec;(12):59-61, [Article in Russian]
Silina EM, et al, "[Some diseases of the kidneys in children during the 1st year of life, following primary smallpox vaccination and administration of pertusis-diphtheria-tetanus vaccine]." Vopr Okhr Materin Det 1968 Mar; 13(3):79-80, [Article in Russian]
Vaccines and Skin Disorders Citations:

Illingsworth R, "Skin rashes after triple vaccine," Arch Dis Child 1987 Sep; 62(9):979.
Lupton GP, "Discoid lupus erythematosus occurring in a smallpox vaccination scar," J Am Acad Dermatol, 1987 Oct; 17(4):688-690.
Kompier, A J, "Some Skin Diseases caused by Vaccinia Virus [Smallpox]," Ned Milt Geneesk T, 15:149-157, May 1962.
Weber, G et al, "Skin Lesions Following Vaccinations," Deutsch Med Wschr, 88:1878-1886, S7 Sept 1963.
Copeman, P W, "Skin Complications of Smallpox Vaccination," Practitioner, 197:793-800, Dec 1966.
Denning, DW, et al, "Skin Rashes After Triple Vaccine," Arch Disorder Child, May 1987, 62(5): 510-511.
Vaccinations and Abcesses:

Sterler, HC, et al, "Outbreaks of Group A Steptococcal Abcesses Following DTP Vaccination", Pediatrics, Feb 1985, 75(2):299-303.
DiPiramo, D, et al, "Abcess Formation at the Site of Inoculation of Calmette-Guerin Bacillus (BCG)," Riv Med Aeronaut Spaz, Jul-Dec 1981, 46(3-4):190-199.
Vaccinations and Shock:

Caileba, A et al, "Shock associated with Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation Syndrome following Injection of DT.TAB Vaccine, Prese Med, Sept 15, 1984, 13(3):1900.
Vaccines: The Weird, The Wild and The Hilarious Citations:

Sometimes there are articles published about the strangest facts related to vaccines that defies our imagination and ability to understand them. They were written seriously by well-meaning scientific persons, but their titles can be seen differently. Some are funny, some are sad and some are purely scientific folly. See if you can figure these out:

Pathel, JC, et al, "Tetanus Following Vaccination Against Small-pox", J Pediatr, Jul 1960; 27:251-263. [Now you need a tetanus vaccination!]
Favez, G, "Tuberculous Superinfection Following a Smallpox Re-Vaccination", Praxis, July 21, 1960; 49:698-699. [Super means large/big/great!]
Bonifacio, A et al, "Traffic Accidents as an expression of "Iatrogenic damage", Minerva Med, Feb 24, 1971, 62:735-740. [But officer I was just vaccinated!]
Baker, J et al, "Accidental Vaccinia: Primary Inoculation of a Scrotum", Clin Pediatr (Phila), Apr 1972, 11:244-245. [Ooops, the needle slipped.]
Edwards, K, "Danger of Sunburn Following Vaccination", Papua New Guinea Med J, Dec 1977, 20(4):203. [Are vaccines phototoxic?]
Stroder, J, "Incorrect Therapy in Children", Folia Clin Int (Barc), Feb 1966, 16:82-90. [Agreed.]
Wehrle PF, "Injury associated with the use of vaccines," Clin Ther 1985;7(3):282-284. [Dah!]
Alberts ME, "When and where will it stop", Iowa Med 1986 Sep; 76(9):424. [When!]
Breiman RF, Zanca JA, "Of floors and ceilings -- defining, assuring, and communicating vaccine safety", Am J Public Health 1997 Dec;87(12):1919-1920. [What is in between floors and ceilings?]
Stewart, AM, et al, "Aetiology of Childhood Leukaemia", Lancet, 16 Oct, 1965, 2:789-790.
Nelson, ST, "John Hutchinson On Vaccination Syphilis (Hutchinson, J)", Arch Derm, (Chic), May 1969, 99:529-535. [Vaccinations and STDs!]
Mather, C, "Cotton Mather Anguishes Over the Consequences of His Son's Inoculation Against Smallpox", Pediatrics, May 1974; 53:756. [Is it for or against?]
Thoman M, "The Toxic Shot Syndrome", Vet Hum Toxicol, Apr 1986, 28(2):163-166. [Animals are not exempt from vaccination damage either!]
Johnson, RH, et al, "Nosocomial Vaccinia Infection", West J Med, Oct 1976, 125(4):266-270. [Nosocomial means a disease acquired in a doctor's office or hospital.]
Heed, JR, "Human Immunization With Rabies Vaccine in Suckling Mice Brain," Salud Publica, May-Jun 1974, 16(3): 469-480. [Have you had your suckling mice brains today?]
Tesovic, G et al, "Aseptic Meningitis after Measles, Mumps and Rubella Vaccine", Lancet, Jun 12, 1993, 341(8859):1541. [AM has same symptoms as poliomyelitis!]
Buddle, BM et al, "Contagious Ecthyma Virus-Vaccination Failures", Am J Vet Research, Feb 1984, 45(2):263-266.
Freter, R et al, "Oral Immunization And Production of Coproantibody in Human Volunteers", J Immunol, Dec 1963, 91:724-729. [Guess what copro- means .... Feces.]
NA, "Vaccination, For and Against", 1964, Belg T Geneesk, 20:125-130. [Is it for or against?]
Sahadevan, MG et al, "Post-vaccinal Myelitis", J Indian Med Ass, Feb 16, 1966, 46:205-206. [Did I mention myelitis?]
Castan, P et al, "Coma Revealing an acute Leukosis in a child, 15 days after an Oral Anti-poliomyelitis Vaccination," Acta Neurol Bekg, May 1965, 65:349-367. [Coma from vaccines!]
Stickl, H, et al, "Purulent [pus] meningitides Following Smallpox Vaccination. On the Problem of Post- Vaccinal Decrease of Resistance", Deutsch Med Wschr, Jul 22, 1966, 91:1307-1310. [Vaccines are the injection of viruses cultured from pus ... ]
Haas, R, et al, "Studies on the Occurrence of Viremia Following Oral Poliomyelitis Vaccination with Sabin Type I Strain LSC2ab", Deutsch Med Wschr, Mar 4, 1968, 91:385-389. [Vaccines contains viruses!]
Converse, J L, et al, "Control of Tissue Reactions in monkeys vaccinated with Viable Coccidioides immitis by prevaccination with killed Coccidioides immitis", J Bact, Sept 1965, 90:783-788.
Motelunas, LI et al, "The Potential Epidemiological Hazard of Parental Transmission of Epidemic Hepatitis as the Result of Vaccination," Zh Mikrobiol, Nov 1965, 42:105-108. [Hazard Plus!]
Krudusz, J, "Effect of Vaccinotherapy on the Sedimentation Rate and On the Hematocrit", Klin Oczna, 1967, 37:191-195. [ESR is indication of health!]
Pop, A, "Production of Laboratory Animals for the Production of Serums and Vaccines," Arch Roum Path Exp Mocrobiol, 1967, 23:423-430. [Animal research for vaccine production!]
Espmark, A, "The Composition of Vaccines With Reference to Potentially Injurious Allergens", Lakartidningen, Nov 3, 1965, 62:3662-3667. [Vaccines are Potentially Injurious Allergens!]
DeRenzi, S, et al, "Damage Caused by Vaccine Therapy and Serotherapy", Clin Ter, Sept 30, 1966, 38:497-500. [Damage Caused by Vaccines!]
Lewis, J, "Iatrogenic Malaria," New Zeal Med J, Feb 1970, 71:88-89. [Malaria caused by the doctor!]
Prakken, JR, "Syphilization", Nederl T Geneesk, Jun 13, 1970, 114:1019-1023. [Syphilis!]
Damert, C et al, "Hygenical and Bacteriological Inspection of the Execution of Vaccination," Z Gesamite Hyg, Jul 1974, 20(7):439-442. [Hygiene means clean ... vaccine hygiene = oxymoron!]
Na, "Sibling Accidentally Vaccinates other Following Inoculation", Can Med Assoc J, Aug 4, 1973, 109:237. [I hate it when they let siblings play with needles.]
Opitz, B et al, "Prevention of Iatrogenic Infections Following Vaccination", Dtsch Gesundheltsw, Jun 15, 1972, 27:1131-1136. [Disease caused by the doctor!]
Raff, MJ, "Progressive Vaccinia (Vaccinia Gangrenosum)", J Ky Med Assoc, Feb 1973, 71:92-95.
Hanissian, AS et al, "Vasculitis and Myositis Secondary to Rubella Vaccination", Arch Neurol, Mar 1973, 28:202-204. [Did I mention vasculitis and myositis?]
Cho, CT, et al, "Panencephalitis Following Measles Vaccination", JAMA, May 28, 1973, 224:1299. [The measles vaccination is given to prevent pancephalitis; panencephalitis is a demyelination disease, too.]
Rubin, R H, et al, "Adverse Reactions to Duck Embryo Rabies Vaccine. Range and Incidence," Ann Intern Med, May 1973, 78:643-649. [Adversion to duck embryos, yuck!]
Gunderman, JR, "Guillain-Barre Syndrome. Occurrence Following Combined Mumps-Rubella Vaccine", Am J Disorder Child, Jun 1973, 125:834-835. [GBS is paralysis!]
Hale, MS et al, "Carpal Tunnel Syndrome Associated With Rubella Immunization", Am J Phys Med, Aug 1973, 52:189-194. [Did I mention Carpal Tunnel Syndrome?]
Provost, A et al, "Inopportune Cattle Mucosal Diseases Associated With Rinderpest Vaccine", Bull Epizoot Afr, Dec 1972, 20:265-267. [Those ... inopportune infections.]
Budal, J, "Hazards of Prophylactic Vaccination," Orv Hetil, Sept 10, 1972, 113:2237-2240. [or "Prophylactic" Hazards!]
Levenbuk, IS, et al, "A Morphological Study of the Harmlessness of Live Dysentery Vaccines From Streptomycin Dependent Mutants of Sh. Flexnert", ZH Mikrobiol Epidemiol Immunobiol, Feb 1972, 49:18-22. [Listed under Vaccinations Adverse Reactions.]
Arnold, H, "Our Vaccination Service is Sick", Oeff Egsundheitswes, Feb 1974, 36:133-134. [Agree!]
Spless, H, "Sterility of Vaccination Guns", Dtsch Med Wochenschr, Jun 27, 1975, 100(26):1445-1446. [Make sure the gun is sterile, because what is inside it isn't.]
Redey, B, "Self-Experiments with the Ingestion of Various Bacteria", Acta Microbiol Acad Sci Hung, 1974, 21(1-2):45-62. [Beyond the call of duty for some scientists.]
Webster, AC, "The Adverse Effect of Environment on the Response to Distemper Vaccination", Aust Vet J, Oct 1975, 51(10): 488-490. ["The terrain is everything" ... Pasteur's famous last words.]
NA, "Vaccines Made From House-Dust Mites", Drug Ther Bull, Apr 23, 1976, 14(9):35-36. [Sic!]
Levaditi, JC et al, "Local Tolerance of Vaccines Adsorbed on Immuno-Stimulating Substances", Sem Hop Ther, Feb 1975, 51(2):117-118. [Tolerance and sensitization, not immunity and immunization.]
Miller, Ta, "The Possibilities for Application of the Canine Hookworm Vaccine Technology to the Prevention and Control of Hookworm Infection and Disease in Man", In: Nuclear Techniques in Helminthology Research, Vienna, International Atomic Energy Agency, 1973. [That could be great to control human heart worms, too. We could also switch from going to medical doctors to vets.]
Borsche, A, "What are the Hazards of Vaccinations in Childhood?" ZFA, May 10, 1976, 52(13):666-674. [Hazards are Plenty!]
Starke, G, et al, "Requirements for the Control of a Dog Kidney Cell-adapted Live Mumps Virus Vaccine", J Biol Stand, Apr 1974, 2(2):143-150. [DKC = Dog Kidney Cells]
Garlick, P et al, "Stimulation of Protein Synthesis and Breakdown By Vaccination", Br Med J, Jul 26, 1980, 281(6235):263-265. [Does not sound like normal protein synthesis.]
Weissmann, G, "In Quest of Fleck: Science From the Holocaust", Hosp Pract, Oct 1980, 15(10):48-49.52, 54-55 passim. [Which Holocaust are they speaking of?]
Williams, Go, "Vaccines in Older Patients: Combating the Risk of Mortality", Geriatrics, Nov 1980, 35(11):55-57, 63-64. [Does not sound good for the elderly ... it is your time to go ... I mean go be vaccinated!]
Sun, M, "Compensation for Victims of Vaccines", np, Feb 27, 1981, 211(4485):906-908. [They call them victims, not patients.]
Hillary, IB, et al, "Persistence of antibody 10 years after Vaccination with Wistar RA 27/3 Strain of Live Attenuated Rubella Vaccine", Br Med J, Jun 28, 1980, 280(6231):1580-1581. [RA 27/3 is made from aborted fetus; means it was first used in 1970.]
Frerichs, GN et al, "Estimation of Residual Free Formaldehyde in Biological Products", J Biol Stand 1980; 8(2):139-144. [Take your choice to be embalmed now or later ... oh I forgot to tell you ... you don't have a choice ... roll up your sleeve.] [Formaldehyde is a carcinogen., but that does not matter after you are dead. It just saves them a step.]
Ambs, E et al, "Tuberculous Abcess of the Upper Arm With Regional Lymphadenitis as a Consequence of Injection inTwo Siblings", Med Klin, July 7, 1967, 62:1050-1054. [It happened twice, what a coincidence! Must be genetic!]
Davis, LE, "Communicating Hydrocephalus in New born Hamsters and Cats Following Vaccinia Virus infection", J Neurosurg, Jun 1981, 54(6):767-772. [Hydrocephalus is similar to brain swelling or "water on the brain" and vaccinia virus is used in making vaccines.]
Simon, J et al, "A new Model of Multiple Sclerosis. Experimental Vaccinia Infection in the Monkey", Forschr Med, Nov 6, 1980, 98(41):1607-1611. [Links of vaccines to MS.]
Barrie, H, "Campaign of Terror", AM J Disorder Child, Sept 1983, 137(9):922-923. [Qui tu - Vaccination - Et Brutus?]
Stickl, H, "Discussion on the Most Favorable Age For Primary Smallpox Vaccination of Children", Monatsschr Kinderheilkd, Sept 1970, 118:541-544. [Answer - none!]
Daugaard, J, "Adverse Effects of Vaccination. The Liability of Physicians and The objective Liability," Nord Med, Jun 1972, 87:183-184. [Who is liable .... no one!]
Conteras Poza L, et al, "An Unusual Accident During Smallpox Vaccination: Intramuscular Injection of the Lymph Vaccine", Rev Sanid hig Publica (Madr) Oct 1971, 45:1017-1022. [I thought that vaccines were supposed to be given IM.]
Nosov, SD, et al, "Systematization of Reactions Developing After Prophylactic Vaccination", Pediatria, Feb 1972, 51:10-15. [If reactions can be systematized, they can be predicted.]
Remsey, "Iatrogenic [Doctor -caused] Disease Caused by Vaccination", Orv Hetil, Sept 1971, 112:2245.
Stickl, H, "Estimation of Vaccination Damage", Med Welt, Oct 14, 1972, 23:1495-1497. [Safety?]
Millichap JG, et al, "Etiology and treatment of infantile spasms: current concepts, including the role of DPT immunization," Acta Paediatr Jpn 1987 Feb; 29(1):54-60. [Did I mention Infantile Spasms?]
Mason, MM et al, "Toxicology and Carcinogenesis of Various Chemicals Used in the Preparation of Vaccines", np, Jun 1971, 4:185-204.[Vaccines are not "toxic" or "cancer" causing?]
Michiels, J, "Harmful Effects of Common Drugs on the Vital Apparatus. Agents of Immunity." Bull Sociologist Beige Ophtalmol, 1972, 160:467-483. [Listed under Vaccinations.]
Knudsen, Rc, et al, "Difference in the Protective Immunity of the tongue and feet [foot and mouth] of Guinea Pigs Vaccinated with Foot-and-Mouth [foot and mouth] Disease Virus Type A12 Following intradermolingual and Footpad [foot and mouth]Challenge", Vet Microbiol, May 1982, 7(2):97-107. [Some body put their foot in their mouth!]
Elliman, D, "Vaccination and Professional Confusion", Br Med J, Sept 15, 1990, 301(675):551. [Not just any confusion, but Professional Confusion.]
NA, "Risk Language Preferred By Mothers in Considering a Hypothetical New Vaccine For Their Children", 1991, np, [It is all in how you say it. Vaccines prevent disease and may cause death sometimes ... or vaccines may prevent disease and cause DEATH!]
Levine, MM, "Non-target Effects of Live Vaccines: Myth, Reality and Demagoguery," Development Biol Stand, 1995, 84:33-38.Vaccine Myths- for sure; Demagogue - false gods!]
Stickl, H, "No Negligence in Preventive Vaccinations", Fortschr Med, July 20, 1989, 107(21):14-15. [No negligence because they are supposed to do that ... have adverse reactions ... that is .]
Donaldson, AI, et al, "Transmission of Foot-and-mouth Disease by Vaccinated Cattle Following Natural Challenge", Research Vet Sci, Jan 1989, 46(1):9-14. [Does that mean that the vaccines di work, or that the cattle put their foot in their mouth? How do they decide what is a natural challenge after a cow is vaccinated with the same virus?]
Spier, RE, "Democratic Governments and Vaccines", Vaccine, Nov 1994, 12(15):1363. [Good, let's take a vote on vaccinations - after every one is educated to their real adverse effects!]
Cichutek, K, Nucleic Acid Immunizations", Vaccine, Dec 1994, 12(16):1520-1525 (23 ref). [Gene therapy could make auto-immune diseases increase.]
Alexander, NJ, et al, "Contraceptive Vaccine Development", Reprod Fertil Development, 1994, 6(3):273-280. [Why would they make a contraceptive vaccine? Who would use such a disasterous concoction? Vaccines prevent .... children!]
Allen, JM, "Over-the-counter Sale of Drugs and Vaccines, J AM Vet Med Assoc, Feb 1, 1995, 206(3):286. [I'll take two DPTs, one MMR, and one polio for the road; Oh and how about some Viagra, Prozac and Ritalin .]
Harte, PG et al, "Failure of Malaria Vaccine in Mice Born to Immune Mothers", Clin Exp Immunol, Sept 1982 49(3):509-516. [Of Mice and Mothers!]
Editorial, "Are We Vaccinating without Reason?", Lakartidningen, Nov 27, 1974, 71(48):4915. [Could be! What is reasonable to a three-year old?]
Na, "The Hen's Egg versus the Horse's Brain: ..." 1988, np, [Horse sense in making vaccines!]
Bonard, EC, "Is Vaccination Still Necessary?" , Rev Med Suisse Romande, Oct 1987, 107(10):781-782. [Good question? Who are they asking?]
Forrester, HL, et al, "Inefficacy of Pneumococcal vaccine in a High Risk Population," Am J Med, Sept 1987, 83(3): 425-430. [Ineffectiveness! We are all high risk ... at risk of getting a vaccine!]
What About AIDS Vaccines?
NA, "Protection for AIDS Vaccine Suits", NJMed, May 1989, 86(5):338. [Protection from lawsuits that is. Why would there be any lawsuits if the vaccine was safe and effective?]
NA, "AIDS Vaccines: Is Optimism Justified? Fortschr Med, Jul 20, 1989, 107(21):13. [Sounds a bit pessimistic!]
[Many researchers feel that it is literally impossible to make an AIDS vaccine, but they are still testing the experimental ones on real people ... human "guinea pigs".]
Any Missed Organs?
Heart:
Perez Diaz R, et al, "[Post-vaccinal Pericarditis. Report of 2 Cases]", Rev Cuba Med, 1:49-54, Jul-Aug 1962.
Larbre, F et al, "Fatal Acute Myocarditis After Smallpox Vaccination", Pediatrie, Apr-May 1966, 21:345-350.
Lungs:

Chudwin, DS, et al, "Lung Involvement in Progressive Vaccinia", West J Med, May 1981, 134(5):446-448. [Did I mention lungs?]

Liver:

Lilic, D, et al, "Liver Dysfunction and DNA Antibodies after Hepatitis B Vaccination", Lancet, Nov 5, 1994, 344(8932):1292-1293. [The hepatitis B vaccination is given to protect the liver from disease - hepatitis, right. DNA antibodies means very possible auto-immunity again from vaccinations.]

Eyes:

Goldman, A, "Occular Vaccinia: A Case Report and Review of Treatment," Med J Aust, Nov 30, 1968, 2:921-922.

Rennie, AG et al, "Occular Vaccinia," Lancet, Aug 3, 1974, 2:273-275.

Vaccinations Don't Work:

Gilchrist, A, "To Vaccinate is Not Always to Immunize", Med J Aust, May 6, 1991, 154(9):638. [Vaccination does not always mean (or =) immunization.]

Daniel, J C, "The Polio Paradox, One of the Two Polio Vaccines Has Been Largely Abandoned in the US; The other is the Leading Cause of the Disease", Science, April 1986, p 37-39.

dNotes:

Eva Snead, MD, Some Call it AIDS ... I Call it Murder, 1992, Vol I/II, AUM Publications, San Antonio, TX

Notes adapted from Vaccine Flyer from NVIC, Vienna, VA.

Topa, P K, "Manufacture of Vaccine Lymph", The Ind Med Gaz, Mar 1951, vol 86,p 94-96.

Horowitz, C. "Immunizations and Informed Consent". Mothering, Winter/83, p.39.

T Koren, 1998, Remarks about Vaccinations in Brochure for Chiropractors.

"Effect of Measles-Mumps-Rubella Vaccination on Polymorphonuclear Neutrophil Functions in Children", Toraldo, R, et al, Acta Paediatr, 1992 Nov; 81(11):887-890.

Eva Snead, MD, Some Call it AIDS ... I Call it Murder, 1992, Vol I/II, AUM Publications, San Antonio, TX

Harold E Buttram, MD, and John C Hoffman, The Dangers of Immunization, 1985, Humanitarian Publishing Co, Quakertown, PA

Eva Snead, MD, Some Call it AIDS ... I Call it Murder, 1992, Vol I/II, AUM Publications, San Antonio, TX

Dr Edward E Shook, Advanced Treatise in Herbology, ENOS Publishing, 1978 (1992)

Ibid.

Harris L, Coulter, Vaccination, Social Violence and Criminality, North Atlantic Books: Berkeley, CA. 1990, P. xiii-xiv.

"Did Measles Shot Hurt Autistic Child? by David Wahlberg, Ann Arbor News Staff Reporter, Tuesday, November 10, 1998

Ibid.

Harris L Coulter, Vaccination Social Violence and Criminality, 1990, North Atlantic Books, Berkeley, CA, p 154.

Spence, TH, "The Quite Epidemic: The Assault on the American Mind", ref: Health Freedom News, unpublished

Sharon Kimmelman, "There's More to Vaccination than the Shot", NY, NJ and CT Naturally, 1990, reprint.

The Role of Vaccination in Immune Dysfunction, Cancer and AIDS, 1995, Ted Spence, DDS, ND, PhD/DSc, MH, Truth Seekers Press, Exmore, VA

Benjamin P Sandler, MD, Diet Prevents Polio, 1951, The Lee Foundation for Nutritional Research, Milwaukee, WS

. PF Colliers, "Elizabeth Kenny", 1986, P F Collier, Inc, NY

. Neil Miller, Vaccines: Are They Really Safe and Effective?, 1992, The New Atlantean Press, Sante Fe, NM

. Stockton, The Book Of Health, 1990, McLean Publishing, Tampa, FL

Ruth, Winter, MS, Cosmetic Ingredients, 4th ed, 1994, Three Rivers Press, NY

Ibid. p 43.

JAMA, July 3, 1926, p 45.

Vera Scheibner, PhD, Vaccinations: 100 Years Assault on the Immune System, 1993, Australian Print Group

[moostraks]

I thank you for your work. I have done my vaccinations with no ill health, the same as my mom and pop and brother. My kids, and my wife, no problems. People LOVE to use anecdotal evidence, but ignore the overwhelming science and facts about the dread diseases.

Paranoia is an illness too.

Blindly following the will of the government due to its fear mongering is insane, which would qualify under the mental illness category. Well glad to see for you the side effects were not apparent, and the long range prognosis? Oh, that's right, there is no long range effects from these vaccines right? Just like there is no immediately seen reactions to some of these vaccines either....The facts stand that individuals should have the right to chose what goes into their bodies, not the government, certainly not some entity which has the level of lobbyists and stand to reap financial rewards by terrorizing us into subjecting our bodies to their vaccines due to government mandates, many vaccines which begin through loss of a human life....

[american empire]

Blindly following the will of the government due to its fear mongering is insane, which would qualify under the mental illness category. Well glad to see for you the side effects were not apparent, and the long range prognosis? Oh, that's right, there is no long range effects from these vaccines right? Just like there is no immediately seen reactions to some of these vaccines either....The facts stand that individuals should have the right to chose what goes into their bodies, not the government, certainly not some entity which has the level of lobbyists and stand to reap financial rewards by terrorizing us into subjecting our bodies to their vaccines due to government mandates, many vaccines which begin through loss of a human life....

no where in the post did I say here were no side effects. The medicines you take for sat hypertension, or diabetes or anything have greater s/e than most vaccines and the doctor knows this and sometimes tells the patient. Would you not want to take these medicines? If not then as a physician I have to respect your right and ask for you to waiver and sign that you were told the pros and cons and that you denied to choose to use them. That way we could save our asses if someone came along 5 yrs later with their attorney saying you didnt tell me in full detail the pros ...so now the progress of disease is your negligence and we are going to sue your ass off....people do that.

what I am saying is that I DO understand your right to deny the vaccinations.....I may be a vegetarian but I will fight for your right to eat pork.....I hope I cleared that.

Yes I understand your concern with govt, lobbyists, and pharmaceutical companies making profit out of these which is wrong but who do you think should sell vaccines....as much as you hate regulations sometimes it is required b/c the companies would go berserk and start vaccinations for stuff we don't even need......sometime free market capitalism can be negative when there is greed involved when dealing with human life....regulations by the govt are required b/c the companies would start demanding fortunes for their services....unfortunately they are....

there are vaccines for stuff like HPV that is NOT mandatory but women at risk can use for cervical cancer...so its not like everything is mandatory and they are out to get you....


RJB

i don't understand your citations of the research done on vaccines...for within the post it already mentions....



Sometimes there are articles published about the strangest facts related to vaccines that defies our imagination and ability to understand them. They were written seriously by well-meaning scientific persons, but their titles can be seen differently. Some are funny, some are sad and some are purely scientific folly. See if you can figure these out:

If you want me to review them then I would have to spend a day...for those who see that long list of citations of proof against evil vaccinations...then I will calrify for you.....

most of the articles are case reports.....these are published articles on cases that are rare or very intereting so they get published....others are ongoing research about the vaccines and the results of each article are not posted....the results if read and quoted by you could be petentially supporting the title or the research may prove that the research did not prove the title....

others are insignificant and not life threatening....

Edwards, K, "Danger of Sunburn Following Vaccination", Papua New Guinea Med J, Dec 1977, 20(4):203. [Are vaccines phototoxic?]

I am not denying there are no side effects from vaccines.....as a physician its your job to see that the vaccination is benificial for the patient or not....
just like if a person goes into cardiac arrest....would you not do cpr b/c you might break his rib bones in the process.....you need to weigh the benefits from the ills of doing something.....

[hairball]

Blindly following the will of the government due to its fear mongering is insane, which would qualify under the mental illness category. Well glad to see for you the side effects were not apparent, and the long range prognosis? Oh, that's right, there is no long range effects from these vaccines right? Just like there is no immediately seen reactions to some of these vaccines either....The facts stand that individuals should have the right to chose what goes into their bodies, not the government, certainly not some entity which has the level of lobbyists and stand to reap financial rewards by terrorizing us into subjecting our bodies to their vaccines due to government mandates, many vaccines which begin through loss of a human life....


Long range prognosis? I don't know, lets see, my mom, just about seventy, doing a full load of college to get her degree so she can be a certified interpreter, my dad still going for miles long walks though he is into late seventies. They grew up in the time when millions suffered, but their kids were saved because of vaccines. They got them. I am 44, my wife 55, we are more than healthy enough for our age. I still get carded for booze, and she doesn't swim much because she her muscle mass keeps her casually sinking, so she hikes a lot. Our kids grew up on vaccinations, and they are fine. Our grandkids are getting the same round, and they have no problems.

So there, four generations, no problems, short term or long term. Some choose to eschew the history and reason. Being a Ron supporter, you should not be against a company making a buck. That is Capitalism. That what they sell also takes care of the suffering of humanity does not make them evil. Jim Hensen died because he had the foolish belief that all medicine is hogwash. He died a fool who could have been cured with a shot and a few pills.

To actively state that vccines are part of some dark conspiracy is blind to the history and benefits of such. Having come in on the tailend of that era, and having parents that lived through that, I am not so foolish.

I guess blindness comes with paranoia.

[moostraks]

no where in the post did I say here were no side effects. The medicines you take for sat hypertension, or diabetes or anything have greater s/e than most vaccines and the doctor knows this and sometimes tells the patient. Would you not want to take these medicines? If not then as a physician I have to respect your right and ask for you to waiver and sign that you were told the pros and cons and that you denied to choose to use them. That way we could save our asses if someone came along 5 yrs later with their attorney saying you didnt tell me in full detail the pros ...so now the progress of disease is your negligence and we are going to sue your ass off....people do that.

what I am saying is that I DO understand your right to deny the vaccinations.....I may be a vegetarian but I will fight for your right to eat pork.....I hope I cleared that.

Yes I understand your concern with govt, lobbyists, and pharmaceutical companies making profit out of these which is wrong but who do you think should sell vaccines....as much as you hate regulations sometimes it is required b/c the companies would go berserk and start vaccinations for stuff we don't even need......sometime free market capitalism can be negative when there is greed involved when dealing with human life....regulations by the govt are required b/c the companies would start demanding fortunes for their services....unfortunately they are....

there are vaccines for stuff like HPV that is NOT mandatory but women at risk can use for cervical cancer...so its not like everything is mandatory and they are out to get you....


RJB



Re-read what I wrote..My statements were that most people who ardently want a right to choose have experienced adverse reactions...Not that you weren't acknowledging they occur, but that it causes a higher level of passion against these vaccines. Not only that but that the methods by which some of the vaccines are created directly conflict with many people's moral values. Yet we are forcing people to have these vaccines done, or face criminal repercussions.http://www.naturalnews.com/022242.html Do you know that the DFACS would love to use this as an avenue to badger parents for being neglectful?
As for the HPV vaccine, you are aware , being a doctor, that there is some heavy lobbying being done to have this mandated for children as young as 11, correct?? I am not seeing boogey men,I don't think people are out to get me, the government is corrupt, as well as medical institutions, and the pharmaceutical companies. There is collusion.
I haven't mentioned who should be selling the vaccines, I mentioned who should not be mandating their usage.
The choice should be up to the consumer. As the parent we are responsible for our children, and some of us disagree with the ethics of taking a life to possibly save a life and forcing potentially dangerous products into small children. We should be entitled to chosewhat is in the best interests of our children and ourselves as consumers. Fear mongering is how the government keeps the sheep in check. They do not want people to be "different". Lobbyists use the fear to make the consequences seem worse then not accepting these shots and the pharmaceutical companies reap huge rewards for an unnecessary shot.(such as chicken pox).
You stated:" but you guys forget some diseases are infectious and your irresponsibility might affect me...for eg if you contact TB b/c you were not vaccinated then I can contact that disease too....." I ask again when did TB become a mandatory vaccine?
You stated:"vaccines for hep b prevent contacting the disease hence preventing you from getting active and chronic disease, liver cirhosis or in later stages cancer...." Okay so we all take hep b vaccines now as a regimine for protection from this disease caused by having sex with an infected person without using a condom,sharing drug needles,having a tattoo or body piercing done with dirty tools that were used on someone else,getting pricked with a needle that has infected blood on it (health care workers can get hepatitis B this way),living with someone who has hepatitis B,sharing a toothbrush or razor with an infected person,or traveling to countries where hepatitis B is common. Hmm...every baby has to have this why????? Before they are 3 days old!!!
And the side effects for a shot to protect junkies and prostitutes that is routinely jammed into infants under penalty of neglect?? Let's see:"Common reactions to the hepatitis B vaccine among those who can communicate include headache, nausea, fever and fatigue oddly the same symptoms as the hard to catch disease.As for more serious side effects, the Hepatitis B vaccine has also been reported to cause a variety of immune and neurological health problems.There have been persistent reports of the vaccine being related to sudden infant death syndrome which is most likely to occur at 2 months, 4 month and 6 months exactly the same time as the hepatitis B vaccine series is often given.Other reports indicate such adverse reactions such as Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS), transverse myelitis, optic neuritis, and multiple sclerosis as well as immune system dysfunction including chronic arthritis.Some speculations have also come about insisting on a connecting with Autism and the hepatitis B vaccine as well as several more on the recommended immunization schedule.
There has been an alarming number of newborn and infant deaths following the injecting of the hepatitis B vaccine."( from
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/98416/the_dangers_of_a_hepatitis_b_vaccination.html )

I also noticed you glossed over the entire point I was making on the medical ethics of taking a life to possibly save lives.... This will not square with many people's ethics and yet the government can use this as a case for neglect.

[moostraks]

Long range prognosis? I don't know, lets see, my mom, just about seventy, doing a full load of college to get her degree so she can be a certified interpreter, my dad still going for miles long walks though he is into late seventies. They grew up in the time when millions suffered, but their kids were saved because of vaccines. They got them. I am 44, my wife 55, we are more than healthy enough for our age. I still get carded for booze, and she doesn't swim much because she her muscle mass keeps her casually sinking, so she hikes a lot. Our kids grew up on vaccinations, and they are fine. Our grandkids are getting the same round, and they have no problems.

So there, four generations, no problems, short term or long term. Some choose to eschew the history and reason. Being a Ron supporter, you should not be against a company making a buck. That is Capitalism. That what they sell also takes care of the suffering of humanity does not make them evil. Jim Hensen died because he had the foolish belief that all medicine is hogwash. He died a fool who could have been cured with a shot and a few pills.

To actively state that vccines are part of some dark conspiracy is blind to the history and benefits of such. Having come in on the tailend of that era, and having parents that lived through that, I am not so foolish.

I guess blindness comes with paranoia.

Hmm.. Being a Ron Paul supporter then you think you would be able to understand that lobbyists do damage to the consumers right to choose...The current mandates are not the free market capitalism you are so ignorantly stating the pharmaceuticals are reaping rewards from.

Since your family never suffered any ill consequence those who have had adverse reactions don't really exist right?? We should not choose what goes into our bodies because your family faired well??? A majority of your family hasn't been forced to take the increasing number of shots they are forcing on parents each year with fear of criminal reprisals.

Stop being so rude and obnoxious, I am not saying big dark conspiracy theory here. That is just a way to be dismissive to what we can all acknowledge exists which is some of the largest lobbying groups in Washington are big named pharmaceuticals. They prey on fear to force an increase in profit. There is no need for the Hep B being mandatory. This is a recent mandatory introduction, something none in your family had to take until within the last couple years. As well as mandatory chicken pox. Another mandatory in the last several years, that all the healthy individuals in your family were not forced to take until the last 5 years. The HPV is one they want to make mandatory for girls as young as 11. It will not end until we say enough!!!! How many people do you know of died from Hep B or chicken pox???Hmmm???

I guess arrogance comes to those who have not had to suffer the consequences of an adverse reaction from forced unnecessary vaccinations with little to no choice on their introduction into their children's blood systems. We should all be so lucky to be calling others paranoid and blind because we can speak with such smug arrogance as you. Maybe you should think about what rights we should be entitled to under our Constitutional government when a right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness means to me the right to choose when and if to vaccinate instead of what time frame the government imposes and how many more shots they add each year because one industry holds sway with our politicians.

[lucius]

Here is another physician’s opinion concerning immunizations from chapter 19, ‘IMMUNIZATION AGAINST DISEASE: A medical time bomb?’ from the book, ‘How To Raise a Healthy Child…In Spite of Your Doctor’ pages 210-211, by Robert S. Mendelsohn, M.D.:

“Although I administered them myself during my early years of practice, I have become a steadfast opponent of mass inoculations because of the myriad hazards they present. The subject is so vast and complex that it deserves a book of its own. Consequently, I must be content here with summarizing my objections to the fanatic zeal with which pediatricians blindly shoot foreign proteins into the body of your child without knowing what eventual damage they may cause.

Here is the core of my concern:

1) There is no convincing scientific evidence that mass inoculations can be credited with eliminating any childhood disease. While it is true that some once common childhood diseases have diminished or disappeared since inoculations were introduced. No one really knows why, although improved living conditions may be the reason. If immunizations were responsible for the disappearance of these diseases in the United States, one must ask why they disappeared simultaneously in Europe, where mass immunizations did not take place.

2) It is commonly believed that the Salk vaccine was responsible for halting the polio epidemics that plagued American children in the 1940s and 1950s. If so, why did the epidemics also end in Europe, where polio vaccine was not so extensively used? Of greater current relevance, why is the Sabin live virus vaccine still being administered to children when Dr. Jonas Salk, who pioneered the first vaccine, points out that Sabin vaccine is now causing most of the polio cases that appear. Continuing to force this vaccine on children is irrational medical behavior that simply confirms my contention that doctors consistently repeat their mistakes. With the polio vaccine we are witnessing a rerun of the medical reluctance to abandon the smallpox vaccination, which remained as the only source of smallpox-related deaths for three decades after the disease had disappeared.

3) There are significant risks associated with every immunization and numerous contraindications that may make it dangerous for the shots to be given to your child. Yet doctors administer them routinely, usually without warning parents of the hazards and without determining whether the immunization is contraindicated for the child. No child should be immunized without making that determination, yet small armies of children are routinely lined up in clinics to receive a shot in the arm with no questions asked!

4) While the myriad short-term hazards of most immunizations are known (but rarely explained), no one knows the long-term consequences of injecting foreign proteins into the body of your child. Even more shocking is the fact that no one is making any structured effort to find out.

5) There is a growing suspicion that immunization against relatively harmless childhood disease may be responsible for the dramatic increase in autoimmune diseases since mass inoculations were introduced. These are fearful diseases such as cancer, leukemia, rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, Lou Gehrig’s disease, lupus erythematosus, and the Guillain-Barre syndrome. An autoimmune disease can be explained simply as one in which the body’s defense mechanisms cannot distinguish between foreign invaders and ordinary body tissues, with the consequence that the body begins to destroy itself. Have we traded mumps and measles for cancer and leukemia?”

As a parent, I highly recommend this book.

This is just my take; medical solutions are sold just like new cars, latest wars or politicians touting change—it is important to be informed consumers.

[CowCat33]

If there is no correlation between vaccines and negative reactions, why did the government setup a National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) in addition to VAERS - Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System?

http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/

http://vaers.hhs.gov/

Oh wait, I'm sure all those reported "injuries" aren't really related to the vaccines, just coincindence, and even if they were, they're statistically insignificant, and so what of the people suffering, call it "casualties of war", right? BS!!! :mad:

And to the medical professionals that posted, I do not doubt you are intelligent people but you have been indoctrinated to believe what you believe about medicine. You are not GODS. To be frank with you, no allopathic Dr has ever been able to help me with my medical problems (which I believe were caused by or exacerbated by vaccines), all they do is say, "We don't know what's wrong with you, your tests are normal, here's a drug, hope it makes you feel better, goodbye." Never attempting to find out the root cause of the symptoms. Only recently have I discovered my adrenal glands are so poorly functioning by going to a Naturopath (also an MD, who by the way, does not vaccinate his family). I believe the Creator/God/Whoever made our immune systems to function correctly by acquired immunity thru the mother and without intervention by foreign bodies (i.e. vaccines, etc). I was a healthy baby, but in my case, for whatever reason, the vaccines IMO, screwed up my immune system (and god knows what other things) and that is why I am VERY SICK at an age I should be enjoying life. I believe this wholeheartedly. I cannot explain the suffering I have been thru and I am only 33, not that the pro-vaccine people care anyways, because as some people have put it, I should basically just be sterilized and/or put out of my misery. Well guess what, too bad! I'm not going out like that...

I will add, chronic illness is becoming rampant and people want answers, not chemicals that simply mask the real problem(s), and could possibly cause more even problems later on.

[american empire]

wow ....seriously guys....doctors biggest nightmare patients like you guys....
but its good for business....when you guys roll in with tetanus, diotheria, pertusis, measles, mumps, rubella, hep .....
vaccines are being built for fighting cancer....they have one for bladder cancer already.....
the thing is reading all the posts I don't want to argue b/c you guys obviously have a mindset and don't know how vaccines work....don't get me wrong...b/c your research is comendable but when I read stuff like


I believe the Creator/God/Whoever made our immune systems to function correctly by acquired immunity thru the mother and without intervention by foreign bodies (i.e. vaccines, etc). I was a healthy baby, but in my case, for whatever reason, the vaccines IMO, screwed up my immune system (and god knows what other things) and that is why I am VERY SICK at an age I should be enjoying life.

usually for the first 9 mths the child gets antibodies from the mother which are IgM ....what do you think happens to the baby after 9 mths?...starts producing their own....hence the MMR vaccines at 15 mths....btw the word "acquired" immunity is when you get vaccinated and passive is when you get them directly like from the mom.....might want to look into that....I am sorry that you feel ill ...but if there were problems with your adrenals then I guess it wasnt hard to detect....but i don't know the details of your illness so i wouldnt comment.....

my point here is not picking on cowcat's post and shredding it...

you guys all make good arguments...but unfortunately they all lack knowledge about how the human body functions and how vaccines work....

you need to read up on pathology and immunology and pharma why we require the vaccines we do....we as doctors are not indoctrinated contrary to what some here believe...the reason we even chose the profession is b/c we question everything....if something is not based on science we throw it out the window....

all i can say is to the op is if he isnt comfortable getting the vaccine ....go to your local doctor...explain your concerns...trust me the doc will not roll his eyes...(he might later)....he will explain the reason why you need them and tell you what would happen if you don't....

but in short he will explain its for prevention....

[moostraks]

wow ....seriously guys....doctors biggest nightmare patients like you guys....
but its good for business....when you guys roll in with tetanus, diotheria, pertusis, measles, mumps, rubella, hep .....
vaccines are being built for fighting cancer....they have one for bladder cancer already.....
the thing is reading all the posts I don't want to argue b/c you guys obviously have a mindset and don't know how vaccines work....don't get me wrong...b/c your research is comendable but when I read stuff like



usually for the first 9 mths the child gets antibodies from the mother which are IgM ....what do you think happens to the baby after 9 mths?...starts producing their own....hence the MMR vaccines at 15 mths....btw the word "acquired" immunity is when you get vaccinated and passive is when you get them directly like from the mom.....might want to look into that....I am sorry that you feel ill ...but if there were problems with your adrenals then I guess it wasnt hard to detect....but i don't know the details of your illness so i wouldnt comment.....

my point here is not picking on cowcat's post and shredding it...

you guys all make good arguments...but unfortunately they all lack knowledge about how the human body functions and how vaccines work....

you need to read up on pathology and immunology and pharma why we require the vaccines we do....we as doctors are not indoctrinated contrary to what some here believe...the reason we even chose the profession is b/c we question everything....if something is not based on science we throw it out the window....

all i can say is to the op is if he isnt comfortable getting the vaccine ....go to your local doctor...explain your concerns...trust me the doc will not roll his eyes...(he might later)....he will explain the reason why you need them and tell you what would happen if you don't....

but in short he will explain its for prevention....

Great so you are deragatory towards an actual individual who has suffered from vaccine repercussions, you ignore my repetitive requests for how using aborted fetal cells should be ignored (and is not openly stated to individuals they are forcing these shots on), you ignore my questioning the need of a newborn to have a mandated Hep b shot, why chicken pox is a mandatory vaccine, my repetitive question to when TB became mandatory (it was your initial argument as to how we would be vectors of infection!), and why we should make HPV a mandatory shot for 11 year olds???

You know I am pretty aggravated, you told us to ask you questions you would be more than happy to answer and reassure us, but all you did was be dismissive, ignore repetitive direct questions, and refused to acknowledge reasoning for why certain seemingly unnecessary shots are mandatory to the extent of criminal repercussions despite the obscurity of capacity to contract said diseases or the innocuous nature of the illness itself. Instead now you bring up the MMR vaccine which like the chicken pox vaccine is derived from the aborted fetal cells I am referring to in asking how this is ethical. Why again did you tell us to ask you questions????

So I'm willing to acknowledge that there has been statistically a decrease in major childhood illnesses. I also think there is statistical information that these vaccines have adverse reactions some of which exceed the repercussions of possibility of contracting the disease warrant mandating the vaccine be taken for on the governments timetable. I also question the ethics of certain vaccines formed from aborted fetal cells. This should not be mandated, and it should not be my responsibility to prove religious conflict to absolve myself of criminal repercussions of child neglect. The government, as usual, has overstepped its boundaries.

I don't guess I will hear a response from you, but sure would be nice to know from a medical professional why we should overlook these specific reasons just so we can accept that the government is only interested in the welfare of its citizens...I don't see boogey men, I am just rational enough to know that the government is a self serving entity. There is a world of difference in those two views on life.

[CowCat33]

wow ....seriously guys....doctors biggest nightmare patients like you guys....

I can't even believe you are a doctor after a statement like that. Let's get it right, doctors like you are patients' worst nightmares!


but its good for business....when you guys roll in with tetanus, diotheria, pertusis, measles, mumps, rubella, hep .....
vaccines are being built for fighting cancer....they have one for bladder cancer already.....

"good for business" eh? Nice - I see how you think of patients. I NEVER in a million years would've worried about getting any of the above-mentioned diseases. But now because of your "wonderful" vaccines, I have been slowly tortured to death over the course of my entire life.


usually for the first 9 mths the child gets antibodies from the mother which are IgM ....what do you think happens to the baby after 9 mths?...starts producing their own....hence the MMR vaccines at 15 mths....btw the word "acquired" immunity is when you get vaccinated and passive is when you get them directly like from the mom.....might want to look into that

Whatever! Fine, passive immunity, you get my point. You are mincing words here. Excuse my technical faux-paus!


I am sorry that you feel ill ...but if there were problems with your adrenals then I guess it wasnt hard to detect

Well apparantly it WAS hard to detect because a regular endo couldn't figure it out after running seemingly every test under the sun. I had to get a saliva test for them to figure it out. Not only that but most allopathic Drs do not recognize "adrenal fatigue"...only Addison's Disease. So basically, I have to have a disease before I can get any help. Doctors really need to start learning more about endocrine/hormone dysfunction and how to fix it.


but unfortunately they all lack knowledge about how the human body functions and how vaccines work....

Yes, we all know, you are the experts.


you need to read up on pathology and immunology and pharma why we require the vaccines we do....we as doctors are not indoctrinated contrary to what some here believe...the reason we even chose the profession is b/c we question everything....if something is not based on science we throw it out the window....

Well, your "science" is flawed IMO. There are many, many, many other MDs and DOs out there who are going the naturopathic route and believe that vaccines are NOT necessary or good.

And by the way, my "God" comment is not because I am some super-religious far right Christian fanatic. I do not even consider myself a religion, I just believe in a Creator that knows more than the Creation.

I don't want to argue with you. This subject makes me very angry, and that's the last thing I need right now.

[RonRules]

After learning that vaccines cause more harm than good I'll never get another vaccine. I'll just say it's for "religious" reasons.

ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE. DON'T LISTEN TO THIS. YOU WILL KILL US ALL WITH THIS NONSENSE>

If you are not vaccinated you benefit form the masses of people with vaccination. When that percentage drops, VERY SERIOUS viruses will start spreading again.

That's why polio is starting to spread again in Africa .

Look up how many people died from measels, and smallpox. MORE THAN BOTH WORLD WARS!

[bbartlog]

ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE. DON'T LISTEN TO THIS. YOU WILL KILL US ALL WITH THIS NONSENSE

There are a lot of substantive critiques of vaccination in this read, including the most impressive avalanche of academic citations from RJB. Your all-caps fearmongering is not useful and to my mind is a tacit admission of the lack of substance on the pro-vaccination side. Most of the pro-vaccination arguments I've seen in this thread ultimately boil down to the old argument from authority: 'Well, I'm not going to address these studies you mention, and I actually have no data on long-term effects - but I'm a (doctor / public health official / nurse), so please accept my regurgitation of the talking points I was taught in med school as if they were gospel'. No thanks, no dice. I know that a great many people get vaccinated and suffer no ill effects (I am one), but most people survive a round of russian roulette as well - that does not make it a good idea.

[Fox McCloud]

I know this is a "my word against your word" thing, but I know of a nurse who quit the medical field because of the drugs the pharma companies are using, and the vaccines...

I do think we should get vaccines for some things (but I won't force you to do it), but it should be an ABSOLUTE minimum. There's a number of cures that have been squashed because of their powerful benefits, but lack of profit when being produced. It's probably, theoretically, better to catch the disease/virus, then to cure it--your body will acquire a natural immunity, and you'll be wiping it out with a non-deadly (and in most cases non-side effect) medicine.

Please, don't get me started on the medical industry....they're just about as bad (if not worse) than the military industrial complex.

[youngbuck]

How Vaccines Can Damage Your Brain by Russell L. Blaylock, M.D., CCN (http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/How-Vaccines-Can-Damage-Your-Brain-49839.aspx)

[youngbuck]

Flu Vaccines Found Useless for Seniors; Benefits Greatly Exaggerated, say Researchers (http://www.naturalnews.com/022611.html)

[CowCat33]

How Vaccines Can Damage Your Brain by Russell L. Blaylock, M.D., CCN (http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/How-Vaccines-Can-Damage-Your-Brain-49839.aspx)

Thank you for the article. Scary stuff, indeed.

[lucius]

How Vaccines Can Damage Your Brain by Russell L. Blaylock, M.D., CCN (http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/How-Vaccines-Can-Damage-Your-Brain-49839.aspx)


Thank you for the article. Scary stuff, indeed.

I found that article particularly disturbing as well.

[youngbuck]

Yea, I still don't understand how some people can so adamantly defend vaccines? My only conclusion is that they've done NO RESEARCH of their own, no truth seeking. Is it just laziness, willfull ignorance, both?

[Cyclone177]

Just think of the number of Vax's you got as a kid- maybe five? Polio, Rubella, Mumps, Measles, and Tetanus. Now think of the number they give today. Something like 25-30 shots before 2 yrs old. That is just insane.

[abruzz0]

My parents refused to let the government force me to take a hepatitus B shot to get into middle school

The last shot I received was like... 7 year ago. It was a tetanus shot. I smashed my face against the ground, and they said I needed it. Haven't taken any shots since, and don't plan to after all the shit I've heard.

[shida]

Haven't read all the way through the thread but just in case this hasn't been posted.

http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/legally_avoid_shots.htm

[pinkmandy]

http://www.generationrescue.org/pdf/080212.pdf

For a nice visual of the shots kids get now.

[yongrel]

http://www.generationrescue.org/pdf/080212.pdf

For a nice visual of the shots kids get now.

Because correlation totally equals causation! :rolleyes:

Global warming has increased as the number of pirates has decreased. Obviously, pirates are cool, and have been keeping global warming at bay. There is a correlation, so there MUST be a connection.

[Kade]

Yea, I still don't understand how some people can so adamantly defend vaccines? My only conclusion is that they've done NO RESEARCH of their own, no truth seeking. Is it just laziness, willfull ignorance, both?

To be honest, it's based on the exact opposite fact.

That you read a few articles here and there means nothing to those who do study it... sorry pal.

[Renegades]

I haven't been ill for the past 6 years. I wash my hands, I don't touch my face with dirty hands. I take out a issue to cough/sneeze into when in public and promptly wash my hands after. I believe a good immune system could fight against anything, and it's worked for me so far.

Um you were vaccinated. It's funny when people apply the same scrutiny to these conspiracy's they realize how stupid they are.


That is a myth that was discredited a long time ago. Vaccines do not cause Austim.

Yeah. haha I saw the claim that they cause Autism on....TV....OMG CONSPIRACY!!!111


Long range prognosis? I don't know, lets see, my mom, just about seventy, doing a full load of college to get her degree so she can be a certified interpreter, my dad still going for miles long walks though he is into late seventies. They grew up in the time when millions suffered, but their kids were saved because of vaccines. They got them. I am 44, my wife 55, we are more than healthy enough for our age. I still get carded for booze, and she doesn't swim much because she her muscle mass keeps her casually sinking, so she hikes a lot. Our kids grew up on vaccinations, and they are fine. Our grandkids are getting the same round, and they have no problems.

So there, four generations, no problems, short term or long term. Some choose to eschew the history and reason. Being a Ron supporter, you should not be against a company making a buck. That is Capitalism. That what they sell also takes care of the suffering of humanity does not make them evil. Jim Hensen died because he had the foolish belief that all medicine is hogwash. He died a fool who could have been cured with a shot and a few pills.

To actively state that vccines are part of some dark conspiracy is blind to the history and benefits of such. Having come in on the tailend of that era, and having parents that lived through that, I am not so foolish.

I guess blindness comes with paranoia.
Exactly.