The more and more I think about it.. (Next time?)

[Redcard]

I really think Ron Paul ran in the wrong party. Someone said this earlier.. and they got flamed, and I imagine I'll get flamed for this, too.. but look at the GOP platform as it's written right now.

Education: Bigger government. Reaching into the high schools. Making No Child Left Behind into a larger program that works better.

Energy: Focus on our four main sources, coal, natural gas, nuclear, and "renewable resources" (Note, they didn't even say oil :P)

Faith and Values: Partial birth abortion ban. Connor's Law. Promote Faith Based Initiatives at the federal level.

Health Care: Private health care, subsidized by government tax writeoffs.

War: Terrorism 9/11 Terror terror bin laden terror terror.

My point is, when you look at all the issues that each candidate stands for, you see that he's a man who fits into neither party. Heh.

But.. given that the Republican party is now pretty much die hard war-mongers and those of us who recently just registered republican.. I think it would have been a far more successful thing to come from the other side on this.

I dunno. I'm just thinking that when I go and canvass, more democrats who hear about Ron Paul are enthralled by the message than republicans. I think there would have been a greater gain over there.

[MaidenFan]

The reason Paul is a republican is because he represents the ideal of a Republic not a Democracy. He's a strong supporter of the constitution and liberty.

He couldn't reconcile the Democrats support of social programs, and their opposition to the right to bear arms. And the Democrats could never support Paul because they believe in social programs to help the poor, while Paul believes in free markets and reduced government.

The neo-cons have hijacked the republican party and changed it. Paul is in this race to help restore the republican party to it's true values as well as run for president.

You can still convert your democratic friends by telling them where he stands on the issues, especially the war issue, and only telling them that he's a republican after they know about his message.

[InLoveWithRon]

Paul is the only true republican candidate in the race.. The rest of them are neocon fascist socialist liberals.

Romney wanting to force everyone to have healthcare. That's republican ? Give me a fucking break

[Redcard]

You can still convert your democratic friends by telling them where he stands on the issues, especially the war issue, and only telling them that he's a republican after they know about his message.

Well, they know he's a republican. Thanks to the "Revolution of SPAM" they get everywhere they go.. they know WHO Ron Paul is, and they know what party he's running for.

My whole point is that he seems to be an outcast, and he'd be an outcast of either party, but I can't help but feel that the democrats out there would embrace him better than the republicans have.

[InLoveWithRon]

but I can't help but feel that the democrats out there would embrace him better than the republicans have.

Well your wrong.. The republican idea is no entitlements.. How the heck would Paul appeal to the liberals when they are entitlement hell?

The democrats violate the constitution just as bad as the neocon party..

[dawnbt]

Redcard, do you EVER have anything positive to add to any discussion?

[Redcard]

Redcard, do you EVER have anything positive to add to any discussion?

Uh.

I'm adding something positive right here. I'm saying that it's seeming to me like more democrats are going along with this than republicans. I mean, look at what has happened, we're fighting against Obama for a LOT of youth votes. We're fighting with Hillary for anti-war votes.

Our "Leader" in the polls, Mitt Romney and John McCain seem to be beating us on our issue of anti-war.. an issue that sells incredibly well to democrats.

Why don't you address the information, instead of just flaming me? It's just agonizing.

[Redcard]

Well your wrong.. The republican idea is no entitlements.. How the heck would Paul appeal to the liberals when they are entitlement hell?

The democrats violate the constitution just as bad as the neocon party..

Yeah, well, the republican idea WAS no entitlements. Go ahead and read their platform now, and you'll see it's gone centric just to try to get back some of the base that the neocons have scared off into the democrats.

[InLoveWithRon]

Wake up. Obama and Hillary are just lying.,. They both voted for the war.. If any of them get in the white house they will just make an excuse to stay in Iraq.

[InLoveWithRon]

huh? liberals no entitlemens?

[AlexMerced]

if RP ran in any other party most of us young peope would of never heard about him, it was his inclusion in the debates that made me and many others even pay attention. I was quite apathetic before i saw him.

It's not about which party will embrace him, if you just stick with people who agree with you 100% you limit yourself, Ron paul is about spreading the message, not preaching to the choir.

[InLoveWithRon]

Yeah, well, the republican idea WAS no entitlements. Go ahead and read their platform now, and you'll see it's gone centric just to try to get back some of the base that the neocons have scared off into the democrats.

That doesn't change the fact that the liberals are for entitlements. Look how Hillary want to force everyone to have healthcare.. Listen to Obama's entitlements.

Paul is trying to convince America that the republican party has gone the wrong way.. He needs to stay in the republican party because the basis of what he is saying is what republicans stand for.,.,

Its not for what the democrats stand for, or even stood for, EVER.,

And he isn't gonna go third party now.. Stop starting these needless and useless threads.. The MSM doesnt have to include him in debates as an independent.. And they can black him out even more as an independent than they do now. There are even laws put in pace that can keep him off most of the ballots as a 3rd party candidate.., So give it up already

[angrydragon]

Look at the state GOP platforms, they are still consistent with the old right, although most of the republicans don't follow it now, except for Dr. Paul and a few others.

You Are A Republican if...
Schwarzenegger: No country more welcoming than the USA

Full Text of Speech: http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/31/gop.schwarzenegger.transcript/

Tuesday, August 31, 2004

Part of the Text from Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger’s speech at the Republican National Convention in 2004:

My fellow immigrants, my fellow Americans, how do you know if you are a Republican? Well, I tell you how. If you believe that government should be accountable to the people, not the people to the government, then you are a Republican.

If you believe a person should be treated as an individual, not as a member of an interest group, then you are a Republican.

If you believe your family knows how to spend your money better than the government does, then you are a Republican.

If you believe our educational system should be held accountable for the progress of our children, then you are a Republican.

If you believe this country, not the United Nations, is the best hope for democracy, then you are a Republican.

And, ladies and gentlemen, if you believe that we must be fierce and relentless and terminate terrorism, then you are a Republican. [don't know about this one]

Now, there's another way you can tell you're a Republican. You have faith in free enterprise, faith in the resourcefulness of the American people and faith in the U.S. economy. And to those critics who are so pessimistic about our economy, I say: Don't be economic girlie-men.

http://www.cagop.org/index.cfm/about_you_are_a_republican_if.htm

I don't know about other states, but the California GOP website has Ron Paul on it's main page.

http://www.cagop.org

[Redcard]

Wake up. Obama and Hillary are just lying.,. They both voted for the war.. If any of them get in the white house they will just make an excuse to stay in Iraq.

ANd Ron Paul voted to give Bush authorization into Afghanistan, and voted against a time table for withdrawl. Look , any one can play this game.

My point is this. RON PAUL is a libertarian (News flash, right? Heh.)

He is in a party with an (R) after his name. (Or before.)

The party platform is against him.

There's another party with a (D) involved.

That party platform would be against him too.

Some people invision the two parties like this:

D---------------------------------------------------------------R
Liberal------------------------------------------Conservative

But it's more like this:

--------------------------D--R-----------------------------------
Liberal------------------------------------------Conservative

Since 9/11, the Republican party has repeatedly removed civil liberties, increased the size of government, injected faith based politics, merged the intelligence agencies, increased the military-industrial complex many times over, and increased military beneftis. They did this while taxing the poor more, and the rich less, and the companies even less. They created a police state, a third class of "non-citizen/non-combatant" type citizen for the US, and all of this was done well beyond the confines of 9/11.

My point is, I think that Ron Paul's message flies more with the average democrat than the average republican. That's all. That's my point.

[InLoveWithRon]

ANd Ron Paul voted to give Bush authorization into Afghanistan, .

afghanistan is not Iraq.. Afghanistan was not a preemtive war.. Ron Paul is by FAR the most republican candidate in the race.. The other are not republican, they are neocon liberals.

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/1096/ronpaul1bx4.jpg
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/3893/ronpaul12bk3.jpg
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/2994/ronpaul2rc2.jpg
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6895/ronpaul22xy2.jpg
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/9862/ronpaul3so6.jpg
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/3212/ronpaul32fz5.jpg

[InLoveWithRon]

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/6144/ronpaul12jk4.jpg
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/5691/ronpaul122ft1.jpg

Paul is the most true conservative in the race.. Making him more republican than anyone.

[Redcard]

Paul is trying to convince America that the republican party has gone the wrong way.. He needs to stay in the republican party because the basis of what he is saying is what republicans stand for.,.,


And I disagree. I think it's very clear that the party has been taken over, and that the people in the party who now call themselves republicans have far different viewpoints.

For example, if you went over to another forum, for Huck, for example.. and you said Hillary Clinton wanted the things that Ron Paul wants (Okay, so it's a lie, just go with me) .. they would tell you that, even if it were true that that was what Clinton wanted, that those platforms and issues are not at the core of the Republican party.

They'd tell you being a Republican is like that old song, "AMerica, F*** yeah", and that we need to go put a "Boot up their A**"

The party you think you're in has been usurpped.

[InLoveWithRon]

I know the party has been usurped.. By neocons;.. That's why Paul is trying to resurrect it again.

Listen, in 2000 George Bush ran on the same things Paul is running on//

In 2000 George Bush campaigned on "no nation building" in other countries, and sticking by the constitution, letting people live their lives without intrusive government, good sovereignty, he said let the states rule on their laws and not the federal government like the constitution states, he claimed low government spending, was pro peoples' rights, was for a small limited government, low taxes (he gave people a trillion dollar tax cut), no preemptive wars, "let other nations take care of themselves" is exactly what he said etc etc, all original republican ideas.. These were his stances during his campaign in 2000... Of course he lied to us, as we found out, but the bottomline is he won on those grounds (classic republican ideologies) .. Bush stood on a platform telling the world those were his ideas for America, those 2000 debates are on youtube and they can easily be retrieved ..

Year 2000 is not a long time ago ..

Now we have the largest government ever., The US is nation building (hello Iraq) , it's presently the highest government spender in american history, it's highest wasteful spending in it's history, there are more federal laws over states than ever before, the people have less rights and less privacy than ever before- patriot act, senate bill 1959 etc, less sovereignty, the constitution has been raped, many laws being passed that are blatantly unconstitutional, Bush even referring to the US Constitution as "just a piece of paper" recently after saying he'd stick to it during his election in 2000 .. We see preemptive illegal wars, and crazy spending because of it.. He wants to regulate the internet, as do other republicans in this 2008 race (with the exception of Ron Paul of course) .. and on and on and on

So Bush got alot of support in 2000 running on close to the same platform Paul is running on right now.. Paul is trying to get people to notice this.. Paul going to the liberal party is a ridiculous notion on your part.. Because it wouldn't change anything.. First off, Paul is totally anti-liberal/democrat.. And running 3rd party wouldnt solve anything either because the MSM doesnt have to show him on tv.. And there are laws in some states that can keep his name off ballots. etc

[FreeTraveler]

Some people invision the two parties like this:

D---------------------------------------------------------------R
Liberal------------------------------------------Conservative

But it's more like this:

--------------------------D--R-----------------------------------
Liberal------------------------------------------Conservative

Since 9/11, the Republican party has repeatedly removed civil liberties, increased the size of government, injected faith based politics, merged the intelligence agencies, increased the military-industrial complex many times over, and increased military beneftis. They did this while taxing the poor more, and the rich less, and the companies even less. They created a police state, a third class of "non-citizen/non-combatant" type citizen for the US, and all of this was done well beyond the confines of 9/11.

My point is, I think that Ron Paul's message flies more with the average democrat than the average republican. That's all. That's my point.

It's actually a diamond, which is hard to draw here. On the vertical axis you have Statism(state control) at the bottom, and Freedom on the top. Both parties are very low on the Freedom-Statism scale, and way to the left on the Liberal-Conservative scale. The only difference between Neo-Cons and Democrats is the war, and the WAY they want to spend your money domestically. They're both parties of thieves who think they can spend your money better than you can.

Dr. Paul is HIGH on the Freedom Scale, and to right of center on the Liberal-Conservative scale. I support him for his VERTICAL position, more than for his horizontal one.

Most Democrats fall toward the bottom of the Freedom-Statism Scale, and believe taking your money to "do good" is a legitimate function of government. The good doctor's anti-war stance is the primary attraction to those folks.

[JS4Pat]

Today's party label is meaningless when judged by performance/results.

Unfortunately - for Ron Paul to get any kind of national recognition he had to choose one of the two major parties. If he ran as a Democrat - we would be facing almost the same BS we face now.

[ForrestLayne]

Ron Paul says the republican party has lost its way. He is gaining support in this "new" era of people that want the traditional republican party back. I think this grassroots is the start of pushing the entire GOP back towards its roots. It is going to take a lot more than us, but I have made calls to my reps & Senator - I never did that before... How many others are doing the same?

I tis not going to happen overnight, but 1 rep, 1 sen at a time and if the grassroots still calls and e-mails we can push this thing.

Ron Paul - the first president to have an over active grassroots group.

Think about how we can keep reps and sens on their toes when RP is president.

I was NO PARTY - I like what the GOP used to be according to the history. RP is trying to get it back and I am willing to help.

[Redcard]

So Bush got alot of support in 2000 running on close to the same platform Paul is running on right now.. Paul is trying to get people to notice this.. Paul going to the liberal party is a ridiculous notion on your part.. Because it wouldn't change anything.. And running 3rd party wouldnt solve anything either because the MSM doesnt have to show him on tv.. And there are laws in some states that can keep his name off ballots. etc

It's just.. you're talking about a liberal party as if that automatically means entitlements, while Bush and his friends have just raped this country blind. I guess being a former dem, this bothers me, because here and now, I've watched the republican party do stuff and institute more government programs than they could even accuse us dems of creating.. all the while insisting that they aren't like us Democrats.

You talk about a liberal party as if it's a bad thing to be liberal in a world where Bill Clinton intervened in what now would seem like a small police action.

I mean, just look at it. Which party in the past twenty years has gone to war more, and where? Heck, 30 years. Look back 30 years. Look at who has put us into positions , who's intervened.. it's kind of unfair, since in the last 30 years, it's been only 10 years Democrats and 20 years republicans.. but , still...

I just.. don't tell me that Democrats are by nature interventionist and for large government and therefore its silly to assume RP would want to be part of that party. It's just as silly that he'd be a part of the Republican party under those terms.

[Redcard]

Today's party label is meaningless when judged by performance/results.

Unfortunately - for Ron Paul to get any kind of national recognition he had to choose one of the two major parties. If he ran as a Democrat - we would be facing almost the same BS we face now.

Yeah.. probably we'd face similar BS.. but it's amazing, incredibly undeniably amazing the amount of things that the Democratic party base has in common with Ron Paul's opinions.. and how many opinions they'd look away from in favor of the good things.

Legalization of drugs..
Anti-war..
Not Anti-Gay Marriage..

Just it feels easier swinging Democrats to vote on this one.

[dawnbt]

Uh.

I'm adding something positive right here. I'm saying that it's seeming to me like more democrats are going along with this than republicans. I mean, look at what has happened, we're fighting against Obama for a LOT of youth votes. We're fighting with Hillary for anti-war votes.

Our "Leader" in the polls, Mitt Romney and John McCain seem to be beating us on our issue of anti-war.. an issue that sells incredibly well to democrats.

Why don't you address the information, instead of just flaming me? It's just agonizing.

I last voted Democrat and I am now voting Republican because of Ron Paul. There are a lot of Democrats that switch parties and they will continue to do so. He's not a Democrat. He's been a Republican for 20 years. Why would he run as a Democrat? He's for small government and no Taxes. Anyone with half a brain will switch to Republican if they want to vote for Ron Paul. Unfortunately you will have people that will not step outside the party line, these are the people that you need to stress that A) The neo-cons are the same party and B) It's not the party, but the platform.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

The Republicans and Democrats are the same big-government globalist party, with two faces. It makes no difference which face wins. Anyone who thinks the leadership of either party is independent of the other party is fooling themselves. They are on the same team, have been for decades. If Ron Paul were able to win enough delegates to steal the nomination, the Republicans would supply a neo-con Independent to try and split the Republican vote and ensure that the Democrats win. If Ron Paul were running as a Democrat, he would have the exact same uphill battle. If he were able to take the Democratic nomination the Democrats would then offer up a neo-lib Independent to try and ensure the Democratic vote was split and the Republicans win. The Republican and Democratic leadership are NOT competitors, they belong to the same political cartel. As long as the winner is either Romney, Clinton, Giuliani, Obama, McCain, Edwards or Huckabee, the same political cartel retains its grip on power. Quit thinking in terms of Republicans vs. Democrats, it's the fatal trap our country has fallen into. Ron Paul is the only path out (that has an actual chance). It's him against all of the rest of them.

[InLoveWithRon]

It's just.. you're talking about a liberal party as if that automatically means entitlements,.

No I'm not.. read my posts.. I have repeatedly stated that the republican party is run by neocons.. Neocons might as well be liberals..

What I am saying is, Ron Paul has a much better chance as a republican, because just 7 years ago George Bush ran on close to the same principles Paul is running on.. I ran down a long list in the last page.

Paul has no chance as a liberal at all.. He does though, as a republican.. Because long time republican voters remember what the republican party stood for.. The problem is, the voters have been indundated with fear everyday by Fox news changing the mindset of the republican voters.. The voters have lost their way as well as the party..

The media has effectively brainwashed the people.

[Redcard]

It's him against all of the rest of them.

I don't know on that account. I mean.. honestly, he's out of the election if he can't win the primary.. so now the republicans just beat him in March instead of September. I just.. I dunno.

I'll just keep swinging Democrats in.

[Goldwater Conservative]

Democrats nowadays value social programs and the like above either civil liberties or foreign policy, in my experience, and abortion rights above all other civil liberties. They also loathe federalism, 2nd Amendment rights, and border security. As an old school pro-life conservative who subscribes to the Austrian school of free market economics, Paul would actually fit in even less with the Dems, no matter how Big Government the Republicans have become. The GOP still has great reservations about socialism, and much of the base has not drifted along with the Washington establishment. Paul might be better off in the Democratic Party of 1885 along with Grover Cleveland, but that's about it.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

I don't know on that account. I mean.. honestly, he's out of the election if he can't win the primary.. so now the republicans just beat him in March instead of September. I just.. I dunno.

I'll just keep swinging Democrats in.

The election is in November. RP has stated he's in it as long as we support and raise money for him. The rEVOLution is not dependent on either party. The Republican Party is the current vehicle, and he wouldn't be where he is now without it, but to say he's out of the election if he doesn't win the Republican primaries is short-sighted.

[familydog]

I really think Ron Paul ran in the wrong party. Someone said this earlier.. and they got flamed, and I imagine I'll get flamed for this, too.. but look at the GOP platform as it's written right now.

Education: Bigger government. Reaching into the high schools. Making No Child Left Behind into a larger program that works better.

Energy: Focus on our four main sources, coal, natural gas, nuclear, and "renewable resources" (Note, they didn't even say oil :P)

Faith and Values: Partial birth abortion ban. Connor's Law. Promote Faith Based Initiatives at the federal level.

Health Care: Private health care, subsidized by government tax writeoffs.

War: Terrorism 9/11 Terror terror bin laden terror terror.

My point is, when you look at all the issues that each candidate stands for, you see that he's a man who fits into neither party. Heh.

But.. given that the Republican party is now pretty much die hard war-mongers and those of us who recently just registered republican.. I think it would have been a far more successful thing to come from the other side on this.

I dunno. I'm just thinking that when I go and canvass, more democrats who hear about Ron Paul are enthralled by the message than republicans. I think there would have been a greater gain over there.

*flame*!

[WilliamC]

Redcard, do you EVER have anything positive to add to any discussion?

Not that I've ever seen. That's why he's on my ignore list.

[nc4rp]

why question what could/should/would have been. Paul has chosen this course and we either support him in hius decisions or not. Theres no need to speculate about some other course of reality when we are Here Now. engage Forward!!!

[Cleaner44]

Paul is the only true republican candidate in the race.. The rest of them are neocon fascist socialist liberals.

Romney wanting to force everyone to have healthcare. That's republican ? Give me a fucking break

+1

[Redcard]

*flame*!

Why? Because I'm pointing out there are less neocons in the democratic party than the republican party?

Look, you think the democrats hate Ron Paul?

Their hatred for Ron Paul doesn't even REGISTER on the scale of their hatred for Neocons.

And likewise, the Neocons hatred for Ron Paul overwhelms whatever feelings the democrats have against RP. His own party is hurting him more than the Democrats could.

[Redcard]

Not that I've ever seen. That's why he's on my ignore list.

And william, you put me on your ignore list after you were told to by Moderators who were tired of you stalking me.

If you don't like my threads, please don't read them.

[Akus]

I really think Ron Paul ran in the wrong party. Someone said this earlier.. and they got flamed, and I imagine I'll get flamed for this, too.. but look at the GOP platform as it's written right now.

Education: Bigger government. Reaching into the high schools. Making No Child Left Behind into a larger program that works better.

Energy: Focus on our four main sources, coal, natural gas, nuclear, and "renewable resources" (Note, they didn't even say oil :P)

Faith and Values: Partial birth abortion ban. Connor's Law. Promote Faith Based Initiatives at the federal level.

Health Care: Private health care, subsidized by government tax writeoffs.

War: Terrorism 9/11 Terror terror bin laden terror terror.

My point is, when you look at all the issues that each candidate stands for, you see that he's a man who fits into neither party. Heh.

But.. given that the Republican party is now pretty much die hard war-mongers and those of us who recently just registered republican.. I think it would have been a far more successful thing to come from the other side on this.

I dunno. I'm just thinking that when I go and canvass, more democrats who hear about Ron Paul are enthralled by the message than republicans. I think there would have been a greater gain over there.
you are absolutely wrong. The fact that RP is Running as a Republican is what attracted so many people. He actually has a legitimate chance to win and has to jump through an infinitely smaller amount of hoops then, say a Libertarian or a Constitution party would.