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View Full Version : DIBOLD-- A Fair Assessment




humanic
01-25-2008, 12:54 AM
He is definitely here solely to give the impression that supporters are losing faith and intentionally divide us.

I'm actually going to recant this statement that I made on a previous thread regarding DIBOLD, a member of this forum that everyone is calling a troll. I read through the majority of his posts, and there's a good chance he actually does believe in Ron Paul's message and does want him to win:

- He never (at least not that I noticed) criticizes Paul on policy, and states multiple times that he thinks Paul's political views are wonderful.
- He does constantly criticize the way he comes across and his unwillingness to push his way into debates.
- He repeatedly expresses his view that the grassroots spends too much time "inflating" online polls and not enough time canvassing and so forth.
- He believes that the primaries, mostly due to electronic voting machines, are easily hackable and therefore easy to steal. (This is a well documented fact and objectively true).
- He also contends that this means that even if we can generate enough support for Ron Paul, enough votes will be stolen to keep him from winning the nomination.
- He criticizes the moderators of this board for deleting/moving/censoring threads related to voter fraud, and the people who feverishly support this decision by the moderators. He feels that it is pointless to spend so much time and money trying to get Paul votes if we aren't going to take the issue of voter fraud equally serious.

He does not explain these views in a detailed or remotely diplomatic way. Rather, he often expresses them in the most cynical, alienating way possible. In my opinion, this is completely counter-productive and serves to divide supporters and turn them off to what is an otherwise completely reasonable and important message.

Personally, I am in 100% agreement with him about the voter fraud issue, and I think us not taking that seriously is a foolish mistake.

Note: I do NOT know this guy in any way.

hueylong
01-25-2008, 12:55 AM
He's banned and he deserves to be.

Enzo
01-25-2008, 12:57 AM
His cynicism doesn't help... an neither do a bunch of threads proclaiming who is a Troll.

Question their motives, attempt to educate them, or ignore them.

They will get bored and leave.

For Paul In Arkansas
01-25-2008, 01:02 AM
He's banned and he deserves to be.
Hey, I'm new here.. but what about freedom of speech that Ron Paul values so greatly? Really.

Paulitical Correctness
01-25-2008, 01:04 AM
Hey, I'm new here.. but what about freedom of speech that Ron Paul values so greatly? Really.

Freedom of speech is subject to exploitation, as is anything else.

Chadd Murray
01-25-2008, 01:04 AM
He got banned? Seriously? He got banned because he disagreed with a pet theory that is not a part of Ron Paul's platform (the guy probably agrees with much of his platform, that's why he's here) and some followers have decided to latch on to? Poor show.

Enzo
01-25-2008, 01:05 AM
There's freedom of speech.... but this forum is also privately owned.. and we have to adhere to the owner's rules.

And spamming the forum like Dibold did... violates their rules.

Paulitical Correctness
01-25-2008, 01:05 AM
Perhaps you missed his spamfest.

gracebkr
01-25-2008, 01:05 AM
Hey, I'm new here.. but what about freedom of speech that Ron Paul values so greatly? Really.

They can get their own board. We aren't banning free speech, we are suggesting they leave our party and go start their own.:p

Chadd Murray
01-25-2008, 01:07 AM
If he spammed then that's different, but I saw a fair bit of spam from 'austingirl' or whatever calling him a troll (about 3 or so threads were made on roughly the same topic?).

humanic
01-25-2008, 01:07 AM
Hey, I'm new here.. but what about freedom of speech that Ron Paul values so greatly? Really.

That's my point. If someone wants to come in here who in reality hates Ron Paul and post negative things just to anger people, that is one thing. But, as I stated in the original post, even though at a quick glance it definitely seems like this was the case, this does not appear to be this guys purpose if you really read what he is saying. He is just utterly tactless. Maybe it's so bad that it makes him ban-worthy, maybe not, but I see no reason to accuse him of being something he is not. I mean no disrespect to Hueylong, but I don't think he read my post at all, and I doubt he took the time to read all of DIBOLD's either.

hells_unicorn
01-25-2008, 01:07 AM
He got banned? Seriously? He got banned because he disagreed with a pet theory that is not a part of Ron Paul's platform (the guy probably agrees with much of his platform, that's why he's here) and some followers have decided to latch on to? Poor show.

He got banned because he was being a jerk to others on the forum, some of who were simply asking why his posts were mostly negative and then got chewed out as being wackos. If he wasn't a troll, his attitude was unacceptable and he would have been banned on any other forum I've been on.

I'm actually a bit skeptical about what the whisper actually was, but I'm not making fun of anyone who thinks differently.

hueylong
01-25-2008, 01:09 AM
This forum has rules and Dibold routinely ignored them.

This forum is to PROMOTE the candidacy of Ron Paul, not to serve as a platform for every moron who wants to disrupt what we're trying to accomplish.

Banned. And deserves to stay that way.

humanic
01-25-2008, 01:09 AM
Perhaps you missed his spamfest.

If he was spamming I wasn't aware of that, and obviously that is a different story. I was merely responding to the "troll" allegations that painted him as someone who is just here to piss people off and doesn't actually want RP to win.

Chadd Murray
01-25-2008, 01:09 AM
From my perspective several people were being a real jerk to him, hounding him and calling him a troll... He had little decorum in the beginning of that thread when he was being so dismissive, but then again people are often dismissive when they think someone else is being a little crazy (I'm sure many on this forum have done the same to others and can understand).

Enzo
01-25-2008, 01:10 AM
If he spammed then that's different, but I saw a fair bit of spam from 'austingirl' or whatever calling him a troll (about 3 or so threads were made on roughly the same topic?).

Agreed. The Witch hunt "troll" posts don't help anyone.

If you think someone is violating the guidelines, report them to a Mod.... otherwise... You are giving any new members or observers the impression that we are a bunch of loonies... hunting forum trolls. :rolleyes:

Paulitical Correctness
01-25-2008, 01:11 AM
If he was spamming I wasn't aware of that, and obviously that is a different story. I was merely responding to the "troll" allegations that painted him as someone who is just here to piss people off and doesn't actually want RP to win.

Wasn't directed at you, but anyway...even if he was a supporter, his negativity certainly did nothing to help the campaign. You have to realize that even if this is just a silly message board, cynical posts regarding the future of this campaign do hurt morale.

Fields
01-25-2008, 01:12 AM
I wasn't here earlier to see all this go down and I'm probably better off leaving it that way.

humanic
01-25-2008, 01:13 AM
Wasn't directed at you, but anyway...even if he was a supporter, his negativity certainly did nothing to help the campaign. You have to realize that even if this is just a silly message board, cynical posts regarding the future of this campaign do hurt morale.

Agreed. Just wanted to set the record straight on what he actually (seems to) believe. I'm not saying one way or another if he should or shouldn't have been banned, because frankly I'm not sure (unless he was spamming, in which case definitely yes).

I agree 100% that his cynical posts were very detrimental to morale.

Chadd Murray
01-25-2008, 01:14 AM
Wasn't directed at you, but anyway...even if he was a supporter, his negativity certainly did nothing to help the campaign. You have to realize that even if this is just a silly message board, cynical posts regarding the future of this campaign do hurt morale.

I take a bit of an issue with this, as I wrote in the other thread:

I speak whatever I think is the truth because I believe strongly in FREEDOM and that INDIVIDUALS will make the right decision if given the truth. It's a plausible scenario that all the optimism about Ron Paul on this forum perhaps caused some people not to turn up and vote where my realistic pessimism may have bought them out, who knows? All I know is that to be principled I don't want to lie or decieve anyone.

I think that, unfortunately, Ron Paul won't win the nomination... However I am hopeful that keeping him in the spotlight will affect this nation's political discourse to one more accomodating to the core issues of Ron Paul's campaign, allowing for a change in the political climate and a REAL Ron Paul revolution (with Ron Paul governors, senators etc being elected all around the country). Does airing this view mean I don't belong here? I really want Ron Paul to succeed but I feel I'm just being realistic.

hells_unicorn
01-25-2008, 01:15 AM
From my perspective several people were being a real jerk to him, hounding him and calling him a troll... He had little decorum in the beginning of that thread when he was being so dismissive, but then again people are often dismissive when they think someone else is being a little crazy (I'm sure many on this forum have done the same to others and can understand).

This was different, I'm sent him a PM simply asking him why he decided to approach dealing with others on the "Ron Paul being electable" subject and the guy was extremely sarcastic with me. He brought this all down on himself with his demeanor. There is a reason why in Hockey there is a stiffer penalty for the person who instigates the fight.

Paulitical Correctness
01-25-2008, 01:16 AM
Neither overbearing cynicism, nor borderline cockiness are good things.

It goes both ways. Don't assume we have this cat in the bag, but don't crush people's spirits either.

Chadd Murray
01-25-2008, 01:19 AM
This was different, I'm sent him a PM simply asking him why he decided to approach dealing with others on the "Ron Paul being electable" subject and the guy was extremely sarcastic with me. He brought this all down on himself with his demeanor. There is a reason why in Hockey there is a stiffer penalty for the person who instigates the fight.
Sounds like he was being a jerk then I suppose, I was just skeptical because I know how a minority of vocal people recieve dissent from their personal views around here.

austinchick
01-25-2008, 01:20 AM
Hey, I'm new here.. but what about freedom of speech that Ron Paul values so greatly? Really.

dibold, is it you?:eek:

humanic
01-25-2008, 01:30 AM
I speak whatever I think is the truth because I believe strongly in FREEDOM and that INDIVIDUALS will make the right decision if given the truth. It's a plausible scenario that all the optimism about Ron Paul on this forum perhaps caused some people not to turn up and vote where my realistic pessimism may have bought them out, who knows? All I know is that to be principled I don't want to lie or decieve anyone.

QFT!


Neither overbearing cynicism, nor borderline cockiness are good things.

It goes both ways. Don't assume we have this cat in the bag, but don't crush people's spirits either.

Also QFT!

Three cheers for thoughtful, civilized discourse.