People that formerly ridiculed conspiracy theories check in!

[ChooseLiberty]

Fess up! Have you formerly made fun at conspiracy theorists and are now thinking maybe they aren't so far off as you thought?



:D

[mdh]

I've always been very open-minded, but a lot of the stuff going on today is just downright crazy. It goes beyond conspiracy theories to obvious facts. Conspiracy theories often talk about coverups, but man, just have a look at the stuff that they aren't even trying to cover up nowadays.

[MsDoodahs]

Fess up! Have you formerly made fun at conspiracy theorists and are now thinking maybe they aren't so far off as you thought?



:D

It depends on which conspiracy theory you speak of.

[aravoth]

Fess up! Have you formerly made fun at conspiracy theorists and are now thinking maybe they aren't so far off as you thought?



:D


yes

[james1906]

I read Prison Planet and find myself saying "You know, Alex Jones has a point there."

[SeanEdwards]

I read Prison Planet and find myself saying "You know, Alex Jones has a point there."

Yeah. Particularily when he starts talking about the luciferians that run everything and their satanist minions. :rolleyes:

[james1906]

Yeah. Particularily when he starts talking about the luciferians that run everything and their satanist minions. :rolleyes:

I'm not saying I agree on everything, but stuff doesn't seem all that farfetched anymore.

[Kregener]

Any person who does not believe in government conspiracies, needs to open a non-revisionist history book or two.

[MsDoodahs]

Any person who believes in every conspiracy theory needs to open the door to their local mental health clinic.

[PatriotOne]

Any person who does not believe in government conspiracies, needs to open a non-revisionist history book or two.


True dat.

[Syren123]

It depends on which conspiracy theory you speak of.


Agreed. Most conspiracies are impossible simply because there is no way in the world a group of bureaucrats could work competently together IN SECRECY to accomplish anything. No way.

Now GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACIES are a different thing. They're not all that secret - just cloaked in misinformation, buried in other projects, etc. and enacted through unwitting accomplices (workers). Those I most certainly DO believe in.

[PatriotOne]

Any person who believes in every conspiracy theory needs to open the door to their local mental health clinic.


And true dat. But until you research a bunch of them, a person should not disnmiss them out of hand. As a person who has researched many of them the past couple years, I can honestly say:

Truth really is stranger than fiction!

[PatriotOne]

Agreed. Most conspiracies are impossible simply because there is no way in the world a group of bureaucrats could work competently together IN SECRECY to accomplish anything. No way.

Now GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACIES are a different thing. They're not all that secret - just cloaked in misinformation, buried in other projects, etc. and enacted through unwitting accomplices (workers). Those I most certainly DO believe in.


Sure they can..,.they just intimidate or blackmail or kill the ones who don't go along with the agenda :eek: .

[cjhowe]

And true dat. But until you research a bunch of them, a person should not disnmiss them out of hand. As a person who has researched many of them the past couple years, I can honestly say:

Truth really is stranger than fiction!
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

[PatriotOne]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

LOL...right out of the disinfo agent handbook ;) What cjhowe doesn't mention or seem to understand is that "extraordinary evidence" is:

Seized and stamped "Top Secret" because it is for the good of "National Security" and then neatly locked away in Government vaults.

or

Extraordinary evidence (documents) is shredded to hide our Governments dirty little secrets. (For example: all the MK Ultra mind control project documentation where they FUCKED an unknown amount of people up to the point of no return).

Or people are not allowed to testify (how many times has Bush kept his staff from facing a Congressional/Senate committee now...I have lost count).

AND they KILL people to hide their secrects.

Surely everyone here knows all of THAT by now!

[Kregener]

I do not believe in any space alien conspiracy.

*WHEW*

Note to self: Cancel psychiatric evaluation.

[aravoth]

yeah some conspiracies seem truthful now. But I just read something about Bigfoot giving birth to highlord reptillian monarchs that dwell in the center of the earth. Maybe I'm the looney toon, but that seems pretty fracken far out there.

[Brandybuck]

Fess up! Have you formerly made fun at conspiracy theorists and are now thinking maybe they aren't so far off as you thought?
Nope. I used to in the past, but I wised up.

Of course, it's what you mean by "conspiracy". I don't believe in aliens as Roswell, faked moonshot landings, anyone other then LHO assassinating JFK, or insiders demolishing WTC, or chemtrails. I do believe, however, that governments at all levels routinely coverup their mistakes and incompetencies.

[PatriotOne]

yeah some conspiracies seem truthful now. But I just read something about Bigfoot giving birth to highlord reptillian monarchs that dwell in the center of the earth. Maybe I'm the looney toon, but that seems pretty fracken far out there.


Some people have some pretty good imaginations but after researching so many different areas (Conspiracies) these past couple years you learn that the Government disinfo agents also purposely floats absurdness in the field and credits them to the field in question.

I'm not talking about BigFoots and Reptilians....I've never looked into that stuff (even though I live in Washington State where supposedly Bigfoot walks around quite frequently :p ) I am talking about the many absurd 9/11 Theories floated about on purpose so the the whole field can be discredited. Hard for someone first looking into the 9/11 Truth field to discern what is disinfo and what is not. You probably already knew all that though :)

[lucius]

Agreed. Most conspiracies are impossible simply because there is no way in the world a group of bureaucrats could work competently together IN SECRECY to accomplish anything. No way.

Now GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACIES are a different thing. They're not all that secret - just cloaked in misinformation, buried in other projects, etc. and enacted through unwitting accomplices (workers). Those I most certainly DO believe in.

I respectfully disagree. This demonstrates almost perfect secrecy. I am ashamed that it was produced by the BBC and not in America, 'Dead in the Water':

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3319663041501647311&q=DEAD+IN+THE+WATER&total=2092&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

[Give me liberty]

I dont agree with alex jones and his crazy anti russian conspiracies.

althourgh most of his stuff terrorstorm and other flims are good, but his views on russsia are outrageous.


today alex jones prision plaet had a article
that says that the russians were behind the Beslan siege?
i mean come on, thats silly he has no evidence to proof his claim


alex jones needs to think before he can make up those outrageous claims
it can get him into trouble in of these days.

[LibertyEagle]

1. the act of conspiring.
2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3. a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.
4. Law. an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.
5. any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.


Does anyone actually believe that this does not happen on a daily basis? C'mon. Happens all the time. What do you think Enron was? What about the creation of the Federal Reserve? Not everything is hidden. For example, the NAFTA superhighway, or the NAU, in general. Does anyone think this is happening by a sheer coincidence?

I certainly do not believe in a great number of conspiracies, but for anyone to believe that they do not exist, is living in a dreamland, in my opinion.

[LibertyBelle]

I dont agree with alex jones and his crazy anti russian conspiracies.

althourgh most of his stuff terrorstorm and other flims are good, but his views on russsia are outrageous.


today alex jones prision plaet had a article
that says that the russians were behind the Beslan siege?
i mean come on, thats silly he has no evidence to proof his claim


alex jones needs to think before he can make up those outrageous claims
it can get him into trouble in of these days.

He comes up with some unsubstantiated stuff, and some of his followers take everything he says hook, line, and sinker. Intellectual laziness. He went all haywire with the Y2K bogus scare, he reminds me of a TV evangelist, he talks and acts like one. He did the same thing coming up with a date he said another terrorist attack was going to take place. That date came and went, just like evangelists who have come up with a date for the end of the world. He has good info on there, but also bad. He does some unethical things and has a huge ego. I'm sure I'm going to get tomatoes thrown at me for saying that. Oh well, it's a free country. :D I love tomatoes so it's ok, favorite veggie (errrr....fruit?). ;)

Conspiracies.....some true, some not. As for secrecy in gov't, well, the Patriot Act was kept secret (and was in the works a ways before 9/11). Until they dropped the bomb on us. So yes, a group of people in the gov't CAN keep a secret. I think people aren't giving certain douchebags credit so that they can feel more comfortable. Here's a great little ditty from a founding father:

"It is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth — and listen to the song of that siren, till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those, who having eyes, see not, and having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it might cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it."

Patrick Henry, speech in the Virginia Convention, March 23, 1775

[TheEvilDetector]

Here is a conspiracy, voting machines are hackable and elections can be manipulated.

What? NOT TRUE you say? Not in AMERICA you say?

well well well

http://www.livevideo.com/video/56A9F628EE3E45DF901B9F4944D9B314/hacking-a-dieblold-voting-mach.aspx

[Brandybuck]

I am talking about the many absurd 9/11 Theories floated about on purpose so the the whole field can be discredited.
You mean absurd theories about how fire can't melt, or even weaken, steel? About how it was impossible that large commercial airplanes crashing into WTC1 and WTC2 could not possibly have had anything to do with their collapse? About how it's impossible to make a cellphone call from an airplane? About how no plane hit the Pentagon despite hundreds of witnesses? I'm glad you're finally admitting Loose Change is absurd.

[PatriotOne]

Here is a conspiracy, voting machines are hackable and elections can be manipulated.

What? NOT TRUE you say? Not in AMERICA you say?

well well well

http://www.livevideo.com/video/56A9F628EE3E45DF901B9F4944D9B314/hacking-a-dieblold-voting-mach.aspx


Holy hell.l..this administration is on the new "conspiracy" everyday plan. All one has to do is freaking look at the headlines to see that. And that's just the one's we KNOW about. Like criminals, they only get caught at it every so often though they are pillaging and plundering daily. Anyone remember the day before 9/11 when Rumsfeld announced that the U.S. Government has lost 2.3 Trillion dollars? Boom! 9/11! And no one has heard a word about it since. Ummmm....any reason we are not looking for that 2.3 Trillion dollars? I've worked for the Government and I am real familiar with Government accounting systems. Ya don't just misplace 2.3 Trillion dollars!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/29/eveningnews/main325985.shtml

I'm sure it was just a coincidence that they announced it the day before 9/11 and we would forget all about it the next day.

[Brandybuck]

I certainly do not believe in a great number of conspiracies, but for anyone to believe that they do not exist, is living in a dreamland, in my opinion.
There is a difference between "conspiracy" and "conspiracy theory". If you need help figuring it out, look it up on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory

Enron is NOT evidence that 9/11 was an inside job by our government. It's such a fallacious argument that I'm aghast that people would stoop to use it. Yet they do. The crimes of Enron were committed by a tiny handful of individuals. But Truthers claim thousands of people were involved in perpetrating or covering up the events of 9/11. I've even been accused, here on this forum, of being one of them!

[PatriotOne]

You mean absurd theories about how fire can't melt, or even weaken, steel? About how it was impossible that large commercial airplanes crashing into WTC1 and WTC2 could not possibly have had anything to do with their collapse? About how it's impossible to make a cellphone call from an airplane? About how no plane hit the Pentagon despite hundreds of witnesses? I'm glad you're finally admitting Loose Change is absurd.


Um yeah...like fire can't melt or weaken steel unless it's in a very controlled environment for the purpose of melting steel.. Ever have your oven melt from heat? Ever have your BBQ melt from fire? Steel is pretty much what we use to contain heat and fire.

Hundreds of witnesses huh? Got a list there Bucky? So Brandy....tell me why the Government has refused to release a single video of a plane hitting the Pentagon even though they have 80+ video's? How come, within minutes of that supposed plane hitting the Pentagon were FBI agents confiscating video's from a convenience store and a hotel which had cameras? Within minutes! LOL...yeah...that's the first thing the FBI would do after a plane hits the freaking pentagon that has like 100 video camera's trained everywhere. The FBI runs over to a convenience store and a hotel to confiscate their video's too. How come the Pentagon will not show us the plane Brandy? 100 plus camera's on the Pentagon, you would think they could show us the fricken 757 don't you think? Why do you suppose they don't? Could it be there was NO plane that hit the Pentagon? Oh and can you explain how a 757 fit in that 14' diameter hole in the Pentagon while you are at it? Never mind....your an idiot.

[PatriotOne]

There is a difference between "conspiracy" and "conspiracy theory". If you need help figuring it out, look it up on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory

Enron is NOT evidence that 9/11 was an inside job by our government. It's such a fallacious argument that I'm aghast that people would stoop to use it. Yet they do. The crimes of Enron were committed by a tiny handful of individuals. But Truthers claim thousands of people were involved in perpetrating or covering up the events of 9/11. I've even been accused, here on this forum, of being one of them!

I don't think he was implying Enron was evidence of a 9/11 conspiracy...though very convenient regardless.

[SeekLiberty]

Any person who believes in every conspiracy theory needs to open the door to their local mental health clinic.

I've yet to meet that rare "any person who believes in every conspiracy theory", have you?

But if I ever did, I 100% agree with you.

What is worse are some of the conspiracy hypothesises.

If we define the meaning of terms, I think we're all better off. Here's an interesting excerpt about this:

"Lay people often misinterpret the language used by scientists. And for that reason, they sometimes draw the wrong conclusions as to what the scientific terms mean.

Three such terms that are often used interchangeably are "scientific law," "hypothesis," and "theory."

In layman’s terms, if something is said to be “just a theory,” it usually means that it is a mere guess, or is unproved. It might even lack credibility. But in scientific terms, a theory implies that something has been proven and is generally accepted as being true.

Here is what each of these terms means to a scientist:

Scientific Law: This is a statement of fact meant to explain, in concise terms, an action or set of actions. It is generally accepted to be true and univseral, and can sometimes be expressed in terms of a single mathematical equation. Scientific laws are similar to mathematical postulates. They don’t really need any complex external proofs; they are accepted at face value based upon the fact that they have always been observed to be true.

Specifically, scientific laws must be simple, true, universal, and absolute. They represent the cornerstone of scientific discovery, because if a law ever did not apply, then all science based upon that law would collapse.

Some scientific laws, or laws of nature, include the law of gravity, Newton's laws of motion, the laws of thermodynamics, Boyle's law of gases, the law of conservation of mass and energy, and Hook’s law of elasticity.

Hypothesis: This is an educated guess based upon observation. It is a rational explanation of a single event or phenomenon based upon what is observed, but which has not been proved. Most hypotheses can be supported or refuted by experimentation or continued observation.

Theory: A theory is more like a scientific law than a hypothesis. A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. One scientist cannot create a theory; he can only create a hypothesis.

In general, both a scientific theory and a scientific law are accepted to be true by the scientific community as a whole. Both are used to make predictions of events. Both are used to advance technology."

http://wilstar.com/theories.htm

- SL

[PatriotOne]

I've yet to meet that rare "any person who believes in every conspiracy theory", have you?

But if I ever did, I 100% agree with you.

What is worse are some of the conspiracy hypothesises.

If we define the meaning of terms, I think we're all better off. Here's an interesting excerpt about this:

"Lay people often misinterpret the language used by scientists. And for that reason, they sometimes draw the wrong conclusions as to what the scientific terms mean.

Three such terms that are often used interchangeably are "scientific law," "hypothesis," and "theory."

In layman’s terms, if something is said to be “just a theory,” it usually means that it is a mere guess, or is unproved. It might even lack credibility. But in scientific terms, a theory implies that something has been proven and is generally accepted as being true.

Here is what each of these terms means to a scientist:

Scientific Law: This is a statement of fact meant to explain, in concise terms, an action or set of actions. It is generally accepted to be true and univseral, and can sometimes be expressed in terms of a single mathematical equation. Scientific laws are similar to mathematical postulates. They don’t really need any complex external proofs; they are accepted at face value based upon the fact that they have always been observed to be true.

Specifically, scientific laws must be simple, true, universal, and absolute. They represent the cornerstone of scientific discovery, because if a law ever did not apply, then all science based upon that law would collapse.

Some scientific laws, or laws of nature, include the law of gravity, Newton's laws of motion, the laws of thermodynamics, Boyle's law of gases, the law of conservation of mass and energy, and Hook’s law of elasticity.

Hypothesis: This is an educated guess based upon observation. It is a rational explanation of a single event or phenomenon based upon what is observed, but which has not been proved. Most hypotheses can be supported or refuted by experimentation or continued observation.

Theory: A theory is more like a scientific law than a hypothesis. A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. One scientist cannot create a theory; he can only create a hypothesis.

In general, both a scientific theory and a scientific law are accepted to be true by the scientific community as a whole. Both are used to make predictions of events. Both are used to advance technology."

http://wilstar.com/theories.htm

- SL

But like Pavlovian dogs over the decades, we have been trained to immediately equate the words "Conspiracy Theory" to nutballs, crazy people, tin foil hatters, etc. No coincidence as I am sure you already know. I thank my lucky stars I have been deprogrammed to that little trick. Now if only the rest of the Pavlovian dogs could just wake up....LOL

[Brandybuck]

Oh and can you explain how a 757 fit in that 14' diameter hole in the Pentagon while you are at it? Never mind....your an idiot.
That hole was the EXIT hole in the third ring. Since I am also an idiot, I will defer to your intelligent expectation that 125' wide plane should be able to crash through several reinforced concrete walls, intact, to make a 125' wide exit hole. My feeble mind tells me that if a plane hit the Pentagon, it's wings would shear off at the first wall and the rest would be pulverized, making smaller and smaller holes through each wall it encountered, until the last shreds came to a stop.

Here is a link to information even more idiotic than myself: http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/index.php?title=Pentagon
And unbelievably, some idiot witnesses to the airplane striking the Pentagon! http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/index.php?title=Pentagon_witnesses

[PatriotOne]

Well, well, look who shows up when I mention Pavlov's dog..........:D

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e198/Yekt40/tater-avatar.jpg

[Syren123]

I guess I'm not thinking of 'conspiracy' in the right way. All the events you guys have described I would classify as lying, cheating, stealing, ass covering. But I'll concede that a lot of this could be considered 'conspiracy.' Maybe I'm thinking too James Bond.

[CurtisLow]

I've always been very open-minded, but a lot of the stuff going on today is just downright crazy. It goes beyond conspiracy theories to obvious facts. Conspiracy theories often talk about coverups, but man, just have a look at the stuff that they aren't even trying to cover up nowadays.


Yeah, they (the government) have gotten very bold lately. You see how I don't say our government. It seem they don't work for "The People" any longer.

[Brandybuck]

Well, well, look who shows up when I mention Pavlov's dog..........:D
I take it then that you have never exhibited a conditioned response in a conspriacy thread? Let's look at your most recent post. I bet it's about a conspiracy...

YES I WAS RIGHT! You're salivating like Ivan's beagle! http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=100222#post100222

[MsDoodahs]

I've yet to meet that rare "any person who believes in every conspiracy theory", have you?

Okay, maybe not every conspiracy theory - I'm sure there are some she has yet to hear about. ;)

However, from what I know of her, as soon as she hears about them, she'll believe. :(

[LibertyEagle]

There is a difference between "conspiracy" and "conspiracy theory". If you need help figuring it out, look it up on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory

Enron is NOT evidence that 9/11 was an inside job by our government. It's such a fallacious argument that I'm aghast that people would stoop to use it. Yet they do. The crimes of Enron were committed by a tiny handful of individuals. But Truthers claim thousands of people were involved in perpetrating or covering up the events of 9/11. I've even been accused, here on this forum, of being one of them!

Did I say it was? No. Nor did I mention 9-11. What I did say was that conspiracies happen every day. I also agree with the poster who talked about how we as a populace, have been conditioned to believe talk of a conspiracy should be relegated to some kind of kook bin. This was done for a reason and the reason was to shut down dialogue. Some conspiracies are real and some are not. People should not disregard them until after checking them out to see if they have merit.

[ChooseLiberty]

OK. Trying to figure out what falls under CT -

Reptilians = CT.

Alien grays abductions = CT.

Bohemian Grove = ?

Fed = ?

AIPAC = ?

George W Bush is clinically insane = ?

There are lot of things that fall under CT in the mind of Josephine six pack, but seem to be facts under further examination.

[BuddyRey]

Yes!!! I once had a conversation with a friendly inebriate at a Charlotte TGI Fridays who gave me a full report on how the CIA killed Kennedy. I thought he was kinda kooky, though he seemed like a great guy. Now I know he was right on the money with the JFK Assassination-CIA links.

[Suzu]

To you folks who insist that it's not possible for thousands of people in government to keep a secret: Tell me how they managed it with the Manhattan Project, for starters.

[lucius]

To you folks who insist that it's not possible for thousands of people in government to keep a secret: Tell me how they managed it with the Manhattan Project, for starters.

From the “Moorer Commission” (Chaired by Adm. Moorer) investigated the attack [USS Liberty] and made the following findings:

“We, the undersigned, having undertaken an independent investigation of Israel's attack on USS Liberty, including eyewitness testimony from surviving crewmembers, a review of naval and other official records, an examination of official statements by the Israeli and American governments, a study of the conclusions of all previous official inquiries, and a consideration of important new evidence and recent statements from individuals having direct knowledge of the attack or the cover up, hereby find the following:

7. That although Liberty was saved from almost certain destruction through the heroic efforts of the ship's Captain, William L. McGonagle (MOH), and his brave crew, surviving crewmembers were later threatened with "court-martial, imprisonment or worse" if they exposed the truth; and were abandoned by their own government;

8. That due to the influence of Israel's powerful supporters in the United States, the White House deliberately covered up the facts of this attack from the American people;

9. That due to continuing pressure by the pro-Israel lobby in the United States, this attack remains the only serious naval incident that has never been thoroughly investigated by Congress; to this day, no surviving crewmember has been permitted to officially and publicly testify about the attack;

11. That the truth about Israel's attack and subsequent White House cover-up continues to be officially concealed from the American people to the present day and is a national disgrace;

Who made up the “Moorer Commission”,

“In 2003, an independent commission of highly regarded experts was created to look into the matter. The Commission consisted of Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, United States Navy (Ret.), Former Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff; General Raymond G. Davis, United States Marine Corps, (MOH), Former Assistant Commandant of The Marine Corps; Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, United States Navy (Ret.), Former Judge Advocate General Of The Navy; and Ambassador James Akins (Ret.), Former United States Ambassador to Saudi Arabia.”

If you want to read the complete “Moorer Commission” go here (it is kind of ugly because I was emphasizing certain parts): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=102868&postcount=173

[Suzu]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Why? Normal evidence should be enough. Do weak claims only require weak evidence? This statement is pure nonsense.

[Anti Federalist]

LoL... +rep for the timely resurrection.

[PeacePlan]

I just hope you all consider that it may be a conspiracy to reveal all this stuff. Wikileaks 9/11 Federal Reserve Bankers Bailouts etc. may all be a part of a plan to get the public worked up?

Right now I don't trust anything as I am trying to figure out the grand plan, if there is one?

[agar]

When i saw how ron paul was ignored and marginalized in 2008, even after raking in millions, it became clear to me that someone, or some group, ordered that he be ignored.

Now, FOX news just did a feature called "12 in 2012" and talked about 12 GOP potential candidates. Ron was not mentioned! If thats not proof of pure, conspiratorial manipulation of public opinion then I dont know what is!

On the hand, candidate Obama, a man who never even held a real job, was on the cover of Time mag a record 13 times in 2008!! Come on. You cant tell me that people aren't pulling strings.

[Agorism]

I always suggest we move their threads to hot topics.

[amy31416]

When i saw how ron paul was ignored and marginalized in 2008, even after raking in millions, it became clear to me that someone, or some group, ordered that he be ignored.

Now, FOX news just did a feature called "12 in 2012" and talked about 12 GOP potential candidates. Ron was not mentioned! If thats not proof of pure, conspiratorial manipulation of public opinion then I dont know what is!

On the hand, candidate Obama, a man who never even held a real job, was on the cover of Time mag a record 13 times in 2008!! Come on. You cant tell me that people aren't pulling strings.

In all fairness to Obama, most politicians have never held a real job.

[Fox McCloud]

I'm actually on the opposite end of the spectrum here---I've become more and more skeptical of the few conspiracy theories that I previously thought were valid.

That said, some "conspiracy theories" that are well documented (such as the Fed being a pet for American banking interests) I still think have meat to them and are valid.

[mczerone]

Conspiracy Theory: The first shot fired at Kent State was from a gov't agent provocateur, under orders from supervisors.

Fact: The FBI ordered an undercover agent to fire first from the line of peaceful protesters to instigate the national guard to open fire.

Relevance? It appears that there isn't any, except the conspiracy theorists getting to say "told you so".

That's my biggest problem with this conspiracy stuff: even if it turns out to be true, what is the difference? If 9/11 was an inside job, what does going around now yelling about it accomplish? If anything it will be proved right in another 35 years when nobody cares anymore. More likely it will forever languish in a state of uncertainty, and all the shouting will have been for nothing.

Conspiracy theorists also always seem to fall back on "we have to get the government to tell us the truth!". I'm sorry to say that the truth will never be known about anything as long as the government exists. They'll always be able to cover up information and their word will always be subject to crazy theorizing. STRIKE THE ROOT: ABOLISH THE MONOPOLY OF FORCE. Only then can theories be objectively tested by observing the market of ideas. The government distorts that market far more than they distort the money and interest markets - and we can see how much money they print.

[AxisMundi]

Fess up! Have you formerly made fun at conspiracy theorists and are now thinking maybe they aren't so far off as you thought?
:D

Which conspiracies? There are a lot out there.

Liberal Death Panels? Debunked.
American g'ment involvement in 9/11? Debunked.
9/11 a controlled demolition? Debunked.
BHO not a US Citizen? Debunked.
Some liberal/conservative (take your pick) agenda to destroy the nation? Debunked.
et cetera ad nauseam, feel free to name a few.

[mport1]

Have ridiculed most conspiracy theories and will continue to do so. I find most of them to have no solid facts behind them and that they do absolutely nothing to advance the ideas of liberty (and in fact harm the cause of advancing these ideas).

[Anti Federalist]

Conspiracy theorists also always seem to fall back on "we have to get the government to tell us the truth!". I'm sorry to say that the truth will never be known about anything as long as the government exists. They'll always be able to cover up information and their word will always be subject to crazy theorizing. STRIKE THE ROOT: ABOLISH THE MONOPOLY OF FORCE. Only then can theories be objectively tested by observing the market of ideas. The government distorts that market far more than they distort the money and interest markets - and we can see how much money they print.

Pardon me for being shitty about this, but this is getting tiresome...

You said:
"STRIKE THE ROOT: ABOLISH THE MONOPOLY OF FORCE".

Now then, just how the fuck do you propose to do that, if you cannot convince people that government lies, covers up and murders on a regular basis???

If you cannot convince people of that fact, then they will remain locked into thinking that government will really work for them, just as soon as they get enough of "their" people into it.

Yeah, real smart, ignore government's track record on it's abuse of it's monopoly of force that you want to get rid of??!!

For Fuck's Sake....

[Marenco]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO0-u900OG4

[StilesBC]

Pardon me for being shitty about this, but this is getting tiresome...

You said:

Now then, just how the fuck do you propose to do that, if you cannot convince people that government lies, covers up and murders on a regular basis???

If you cannot convince people of that fact, then they will remain locked into thinking that government will really work for them, just as soon as they get enough of "their" people into it.

Yeah, real smart, ignore government's track record on it's abuse of it's monopoly of force that you want to get rid of??!!

For Fuck's Sake....

There's lots of ways to convince people that big government is bad. Pounding the table on many of the main "propositions" of Austrian economics (http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/AustrianSchoolofEconomics.html), for example. Exposing governments as a bunch of children through dissemination of information is another way (eg. Wikileaks). Even leading by example through entrepreneurship and philanthropy can help change some people's minds about commonly demonized things such as "profit."

If someone is starting with the assumption that "government is here to help us", then attacking that belief with the most egregious violations is simply too much for many. Their minds turn off. They find defensive mechanisms that minimize its impact - or worse, they entrench current beliefs. For most, starting with something like the economic calculation debate can be far more productive. If they don't already have a prior emotional bias, they'll be more likely to listen. Then, after many years of observation they may be willing to accept that governments may be so self-interested that they would go to the extent of killing their own people to preserve their power.

[teacherone]

i got your liberal death panel right here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fZTntL13ZY&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aogCaGv9i78

it's not a conspiracy but a fact that government run healthcare will have to include government bureaucrats ON A PANEL of some sorts deciding which treatments will be affordable and effective (in their eyes) and which shall be denied and discontinued.




Which conspiracies? There are a lot out there.

Liberal Death Panels? Debunked.
American g'ment involvement in 9/11? Debunked.
9/11 a controlled demolition? Debunked.
BHO not a US Citizen? Debunked.
Some liberal/conservative (take your pick) agenda to destroy the nation? Debunked.
et cetera ad nauseam, feel free to name a few.

[lynnf]

Which conspiracies? There are a lot out there.

Liberal Death Panels? Debunked.
American g'ment involvement in 9/11? Debunked.
9/11 a controlled demolition? Debunked.
BHO not a US Citizen? Debunked.
Some liberal/conservative (take your pick) agenda to destroy the nation? Debunked.
et cetera ad nauseam, feel free to name a few.

the gullibility is appalling. just because someone writes a diatribe of opposition doesn't mean that they debunked something. you are wrong on all counts in your list. come back when you grow up.

lynn

[jmhudak17]

Obviously the reptilians that shot JFK did 9/11 and then helped Obama hide that he's not a US citizen :rolleyes:

[Peace&Freedom]

Obviously the reptilians that shot JFK did 9/11 and then helped Obama hide that he's not a US citizen :rolleyes:

More likely, obviously 19 anti-conspiracy towelheads in a cave used weapons of mass destruction to shoot down weather balloons with magic bullets.

[Peace&Freedom]

Have ridiculed most conspiracy theories and will continue to do so. I find most of them to have no solid facts behind them and that they do absolutely nothing to advance the ideas of liberty (and in fact harm the cause of advancing these ideas).

And those who are open minded will continue to be persuaded due to the massive evidence that has been put forward. Clearly you have an emotional, not rational investment in opposing conspiracy. I never believed in the conspiracy theory that 19 Arabs pulled off 9-11 by themselves, including causing NORAD to stand down, setting up nanothemite in the WTC, etc---but I don't spend tons of time aggressively demeaning or ridiculing everyone who does.

The anti-conspiracy stance of some appears to be rooted in a desire to feel superior to "those" people. This faux superiority complex also tends to make them accept whatever the government's official story is on face value (that is, without evidence), lest they must stoop to becoming one of "those" people who question the story. As for liberty, you can't defend it properly without squarely addressing and disposing of tyranny's lies and deceptions. The truth shall set you free.

[pcosmar]

Well I have heard some bizarre theories, And in the beginning (9/11) I did pretty much buy the story, but had questions. (like WTF NORAD?)
I did argue against the Holographic Disguised Cruse missile Theory. However with my general distrust of government, I did keep my eyes and ears open.
I make no claim of knowing exactly what happened and who all were involved. Only that the official story stinks worse than a Haiti fishing dock.

Some folks here sound like the classmates of my youth when I was researching Laser Technology.

"LOL, Lazors,,What a waste of time. Lazors will never be anything. Stupid Geek."

:(

[mczerone]

Antifederalist:Pardon me for being shitty about this, but this is getting tiresome...

You said:
"STRIKE THE ROOT: ABOLISH THE MONOPOLY OF FORCE".
Now then, just how the fuck do you propose to do that, if you cannot convince people that government lies, covers up and murders on a regular basis???

If you cannot convince people of that fact, then they will remain locked into thinking that government will really work for them, just as soon as they get enough of "their" people into it.

Yeah, real smart, ignore government's track record on it's abuse of it's monopoly of force that you want to get rid of??!!

For Fuck's Sake....

If you really want to convince people that the govt lies, stick to the facts. Leave 9/11 and JFK/RFK theories at home, and just bring up the proven lies: The Gulf of Tonken (sp?), the Kent State shooting I mentioned, the basis of the second Iraq war.

Even better, bring up the absurdity of the things that aren't even lied about: the drug war harming poor and minorities and creating violence; the massive military industrial complex that is by no means "defensive"; the insolvency of Social Security; the fact that central govt acts as a lightning rod for rent-seeking and creates regulations that harm small competitors; the inefficiency and injustice of the police and courts; and I could go on and on!

There might be a certain point when people actually start questioning the benevolence of govt when you can bring up that it is likely that 9/11 was an inside job in your opinion - but I don't see how this can be used as a starting point for anyone to start to question the legitimacy or constitutionality of the current govt.

FFS, I specifically did not say to "ignore their track record", I said to stay away from the allegations that haven't been PROVEN to be a legitimate black mark on their record. Get it now?

[nandnor]

Have ridiculed most conspiracy theories and will continue to do so. I find most of them to have no solid facts behind them and that they do absolutely nothing to advance the ideas of liberty (and in fact harm the cause of advancing these ideas).This is such a common argument against govt conspiracy theories, but it is totally misinterpreting the situation. You see, when the very organiser of the conspiracy has full capability to prevent information related to it even getting out(as is case with govt conspiracies) then not having solid info against them is totally expected

[AxisMundi]

i got your liberal death panel right here:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fZTntL13ZY&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aogCaGv9i78

it's not a conspiracy but a fact that government run healthcare will have to include government bureaucrats ON A PANEL of some sorts deciding which treatments will be affordable and effective (in their eyes) and which shall be denied and discontinued.

Paul Krugman authored a manual the government did not choose to use.

The man was simply trying to get the g'ment to buy HIS version by inventing death panels, and you bought into it hook, line, and sinker.

[AxisMundi]

the gullibility is appalling. just because someone writes a diatribe of opposition doesn't mean that they debunked something. you are wrong on all counts in your list. come back when you grow up.

lynn

Offer your proof.

I already exampled death panels in my previous post.
G'ment involvement in 9/11 is simply absurd, and no proof offered.
Each and every thing offered to support demolishion is easily debunked.
BHO is an American citizen, deal with it. He even offered a legal document godd enough to obtain a US passport, and any other service offered by our g'ment to US citizens.
Some liberal/conservative plot (pick one) to destroy America. Each party is acting in what it considers is the best interest of this Nation. The fact that each party has policies that are damaging is moot.


So, feel free to name more, or offer evidence to contradict what I posted.

[AxisMundi]

And those who are open minded will continue to be persuaded due to the massive evidence that has been put forward. Clearly you have an emotional, not rational investment in opposing conspiracy. I never believed in the conspiracy theory that 19 Arabs pulled off 9-11 by themselves, including causing NORAD to stand down, setting up nanothemite in the WTC, etc---but I don't spend tons of time aggressively demeaning or ridiculing everyone who does.

The anti-conspiracy stance of some appears to be rooted in a desire to feel superior to "those" people. This faux superiority complex also tends to make them accept whatever the government's official story is on face value (that is, without evidence), lest they must stoop to becoming one of "those" people who question the story. As for liberty, you can't defend it properly without squarely addressing and disposing of tyranny's lies and deceptions. The truth shall set you free.

There is a world of difference between being open minded, and being mindless.

[vita3]

Back in 2002,I told a friend he was a nut to believe 911 was a false flag operation. i have since apologized to him

[Peace&Freedom]

There is a world of difference between being open minded, and being mindless.

A comeback that underlines my point.

[AxisMundi]

A comeback that underlines my point.

That conspiracy theorists mindlessly sway from unsupported fantasy to unsupported fantasy?

I can agree to that.

[Peace&Freedom]

Offer your proof.

I already exampled death panels in my previous post.
G'ment involvement in 9/11 is simply absurd, and no proof offered.
Each and every thing offered to support demolishion is easily debunked.
BHO is an American citizen, deal with it. He even offered a legal document godd enough to obtain a US passport, and any other service offered by our g'ment to US citizens.
Some liberal/conservative plot (pick one) to destroy America. Each party is acting in what it considers is the best interest of this Nation. The fact that each party has policies that are damaging is moot.


So, feel free to name more, or offer evidence to contradict what I posted.

You posted nothing, except closed-minded assertions. Alternative interpretations of data are not refutations of anything, yet trumpeted by non-conspiracy folks as final "debunking" of the other side. What is YOUR evidence that your counter-interpretations are superior, or stand up to the same level critical scrutiny you demand of conspiracy? There are over 275 different 9-11 issues. How can anybody sweepingly assert "everything is easily debunked" if they are really open minded? BHO did not provide a real BC, as even hospital staff have admitted, deal with it. Indonesian school records confirm he was an Indonesian citizen, meaning even if he had been born in Hawaii, he lost his constitutionally defined qualification to serve as President. As for 9/11:

1) FBI translator Sibel Edmonds has testified to seeing messages showing US agents were in communication with and providing instructions to Al Qaeda ON THE DAY OF 9-11-2001. Passing instructions to the alleged enemy on the day of the enemy's operation cannot be reconciled within an innocent, or even a passive "we let it happen" scenario. Giving instructions suggests elements of the government were positively controlling the 9-11 operation, that is "made it happen."

2) Nanothermite*, a highly specialized substance strictly controlled by the US and UK governments, was found in the WTC wreckage. The mere presence of highly government-controlled demolition materials in the towers cannot be reconciled within an innocent, or even a passive "we let it happen" scenario. The nanothermite suggests elements of the government were rigged the WTC's collapse, that is "made it happen." *3 peer reviewed studies have confirmed nanothermite at the WTC.

3) Former Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta testified on a local incident he witnessed the morning of 9-11 that indicated Vice President Cheney admitted to being in a control position to call off "the operation" (attack on the Pentagon), but would not. Being in a position to actually CALL OFF an operation cannot be reconciled within an innocent, or even a passive "we let it happen" scenario. The admission suggests elements of the government were controlling the operation, that is "made it happen."

4) Troops were already mobilized to begin an attack on Afghanistan in early September 2001, BEFORE 9-11. White house staffers already had been given Cipro to combat Anthrax, BEFORE the anthrax attack occurred. The use of weapons-grade anthrax (that only the US and UK have), and prior troop position cannot be reconciled within an innocent, or even a passive "we let it happen" scenario. The anthrax and pre-9-11 troop movement suggests elements of the government were controlling the operation and its aftermath, that is "made it happen."

5) Indian intelligence traced the cell phone records of the head of Pakistani intelligence Mahmood Ahmed and determined he had wired $100,000 to lead hijacker Mohamed Atta THE WEEK OF 9/11. On 9/11 congressmen Bob Graham and Porter Goss were having breakfast with Ahmed. Funding the alleged enemy (CIA through ISI), and literally dining with the funding agent on the day of the operation cannot be reconciled within an innocent, or even a passive "we let it happen" scenario. The funding suggests elements of the government were positively controlling the 9-11 operation, that is "made it happen."

The rest of the unresolved issues are at:
http://killtown.911review.org/911smokingguns.html

[agar]

That conspiracy theorists mindlessly sway from unsupported fantasy to unsupported fantasy?

I can agree to that.

I think the idea of 19 kids with "boxcutters", out manuevering the US air defense system, and then causing three (thats right...THREE) skyscrapers to disintegrate at free fall speed is "unsupported fantasy."

[runningdiz]

There is different categories of conspiracy theory. I never doubted for a second that our government would and does kill innocent people from another country and try to cover it up by making another country confess to the murders. That does not surprise me, i would expect that of them and it takes no talent and intelligence to pull off.

False flag conspiracies such as 9/11 etc. require an immense amount of intelligence, synchronization, talent, and organization to pull them off. Which makes it hard for me to believe they were behind the entire thing since we see every day how the government is stupid, unorganized, and talentless.

[Agorism]

If you see a conspiracy theorist, try to get their posts put into hot topic bin.

[jmdrake]

You mean absurd theories about how fire can't melt, or even weaken, steel? About how it was impossible that large commercial airplanes crashing into WTC1 and WTC2 could not possibly have had anything to do with their collapse? About how it's impossible to make a cellphone call from an airplane? About how no plane hit the Pentagon despite hundreds of witnesses? I'm glad you're finally admitting Loose Change is absurd.

It has been proven now beyond a shadow of a doubt through actual experimentation that jet fuel cannot melt or significantly weaken steel.

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvQDFV1HINw

It has also been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that thermate can cut horizontally through vertical beams and do so only making the small "popping" kind of explosions like the ones heard on 9/11.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5iIoCiI8g

What ultimately happened on 9/11? I don't know. All I know is that the 9/11 commission and NIST lied their butts off to cover that up.

[Travlyr]

Offer your proof.

Each and every thing offered to support demolishion is easily debunked.

So, feel free to name more, or offer evidence to contradict what I posted.
How do you debunk BBC reporting WTC Building 7 being demolished 20 minutes before it came down?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7SwOT29gbc

[LibForestPaul]

For those who do not believe in just how insane a government can go, just research Stasi from former East Germany.

[AxisMundi]

You posted nothing, except closed-minded assertions. Alternative interpretations of data are not refutations of anything, yet trumpeted by non-conspiracy folks as final "debunking" of the other side. What is YOUR evidence that your counter-interpretations are superior, or stand up to the same level critical scrutiny you demand of conspiracy? There are over 275 different 9-11 issues. How can anybody sweepingly assert "everything is easily debunked" if they are really open minded? BHO did not provide a real BC, as even hospital staff have admitted, deal with it. Indonesian school records confirm he was an Indonesian citizen, meaning even if he had been born in Hawaii, he lost his constitutionally defined qualification to serve as President.

1. BHO supplied a legal US document. Period. The same exact type of document you or I would use to procure any services limited to a US citizen, or supply as proof of eligibility to run for office. You loose.
2. BHO's step-father was an Indonesian citizen. As his mother never gave up her US citizenship, and BHO was born on US soil, BHO remained a US citizen. At worst, dual citizenship can be claimed, something that does not preclude eligibility for Office.


As for 9/11: 1) FBI translator Sibel Edmonds has testified to seeing messages showing US agents were in communication with and providing instructions to Al Qaeda ON THE DAY OF 9-11-2001. Passing instructions to the alleged enemy on the day of the enemy's operation cannot be reconciled within an innocent, or even a passive "we let it happen" scenario. Giving instructions suggests elements of the government were positively controlling the 9-11 operation, that is "made it happen."

A fabrication, like all of the 9/11 conspiracy theory. Edmonds wasn't hired until AFTER 9/11. She was also unable to convince the 9/11 commission, or most of America.


2) Nanothermite*, a highly specialized substance strictly controlled by the US and UK governments, was found in the WTC wreckage. The mere presence of highly government-controlled demolition materials in the towers cannot be reconciled within an innocent, or even a passive "we let it happen" scenario. The nanothermite suggests elements of the government were rigged the WTC's collapse, that is "made it happen." *3 peer reviewed studies have confirmed nanothermite at the WTC.

Another fabrication. No thermites were not found on the site. Beams were cut with torches by the rescue workings, not with controlled demolition charges. This is the "evidence" offered by 9/11 conspirators.
http://www.motorsportsartist.com/911truthiness/?p=76


3) Former Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta testified on a local incident he witnessed the morning of 9-11 that indicated Vice President Cheney admitted to being in a control position to call off "the operation" (attack on the Pentagon), but would not. Being in a position to actually CALL OFF an operation cannot be reconciled within an innocent, or even a passive "we let it happen" scenario. The admission suggests elements of the government were controlling the operation, that is "made it happen."

Another fabrication, I'm afraid. The incident involves the destruction of the commercial airline heading for the pentagon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfdOwt2v3Y


4) Troops were already mobilized to begin an attack on Afghanistan in early September 2001, BEFORE 9-11. White house staffers already had been given Cipro to combat Anthrax, BEFORE the anthrax attack occurred. The use of weapons-grade anthrax (that only the US and UK have), and prior troop position cannot be reconciled within an innocent, or even a passive "we let it happen" scenario. The anthrax and pre-9-11 troop movement suggests elements of the government were controlling the operation and its aftermath, that is "made it happen."

More fabrications. 1. The anthrax attacks were not the work of AQ, and no g'ment employees where given cipro just before the attacks. One could make a better argument that it was the GOP mailing the letters to get terrorized congressmen to vote on the PATRIOT Act )Not that I am, but it would make more sense) 2. Troop movements happen constantly. It is a preparatory exercise, and one reason why we have the finest military in the world. The only things these suggest is that conspirators must fabricate links where none exist to promote their fantasies.


5) Indian intelligence traced the cell phone records of the head of Pakistani intelligence Mahmood Ahmed and determined he had wired $100,000 to lead hijacker Mohamed Atta THE WEEK OF 9/11. On 9/11 congressmen Bob Graham and Porter Goss were having breakfast with Ahmed. Funding the alleged enemy (CIA through ISI), and literally dining with the funding agent on the day of the operation cannot be reconciled within an innocent, or even a passive "we let it happen" scenario. The funding suggests elements of the government were positively controlling the 9-11 operation, that is "made it happen."

The wired transaction occurred a year PRIOR to the 9/11 attacks.

BTW, did you not realize who first created, funded, and armed Osama and AQ to fight the Russians in Afstan?


The rest of the unresolved issues are at:
http://killtown.911review.org/911smokingguns.html

Might I suggest you do your own independent research, instead of parroting these wackos?

[AxisMundi]

How do you debunk BBC reporting WTC Building 7 being demolished 20 minutes before it came down?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7SwOT29gbc

How do you come up with the BBC claiming the building collapsed 20 minutes before it did?

[YumYum]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO0-u900OG4

I agree with Carlin. Someone asked me: "Do you think that the powers at the top allow Ron Paul to attack the Fed because they know the Fed will collapse anyway, and they want the Fed to collapse so there will be a world central bank?" This had me thinking: Is Ron Paul being used and he doesn't even know it?

[AxisMundi]

It has been proven now beyond a shadow of a doubt through actual experimentation that jet fuel cannot melt or significantly weaken steel.

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvQDFV1HINw

It has also been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that thermate can cut horizontally through vertical beams and do so only making the small "popping" kind of explosions like the ones heard on 9/11.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5iIoCiI8g

What ultimately happened on 9/11? I don't know. All I know is that the 9/11 commission and NIST lied their butts off to cover that up.

1. Yes, jet fuel can indeed impact the structural strength of steel. Steel melts at 1315F to 15,00f degrees (depending on the alloy mix), but looses structural stability at half that temperature, well within the range of jet fuel fires.

2. The steel beams where cut by rescue workers with torches, see photographs in the link I provided earlier.

[Anti Federalist]

The anthrax attacks were not the work of AQ, and no g'ment employees where given cipro just before the attacks. One could make a better argument that it was the GOP mailing the letters to get terrorized congressmen to vote on the PATRIOT Act )Not that I am, but it would make more sense)

Of course government "officials" were on Cipro before the anthrax attacks.


On September 11, the president and White House staff began taking a regimen of Cipro, a powerful antibiotic. The public interest group Judicial Watch filed lawsuits in June 2002 against federal agencies to obtain information about how, what and when the White House knew on 9/11 about the danger of anthrax weeks before the first known victim of the anthrax attacks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks

That's documented in thousands of sources.

Of course the anthrax attacks were not the work of A-Q, of course they were used to stampede passage of post 9/11 "police state" measures.

And it is an established fact that the source was the USAMRIID facility at Ft. Detrick MD.

[AxisMundi]

There is different categories of conspiracy theory. I never doubted for a second that our government would and does kill innocent people from another country and try to cover it up by making another country confess to the murders. That does not surprise me, i would expect that of them and it takes no talent and intelligence to pull off.

False flag conspiracies such as 9/11 etc. require an immense amount of intelligence, synchronization, talent, and organization to pull them off. Which makes it hard for me to believe they were behind the entire thing since we see every day how the government is stupid, unorganized, and talentless.

Quite agreed. The g'ment couldn't keep domestic spying secret for even a year, even within the small confines of the Nation's most top secret organization, yet we are expected to believe that they could conduct an "attack" on the WTC and pull it off without mountains of evidence to prove that they did.

[Anti Federalist]

Quite agreed. The g'ment couldn't keep domestic spying secret for even a year, even within the small confines of the Nation's most top secret organization, yet we are expected to believe that they could conduct an "attack" on the WTC and pull it off without mountains of evidence to prove that they did.

There are mountains of evidence.

Some just refuse to look at it.

[AxisMundi]

Of course government "officials" were on Cipro before the anthrax attacks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks

That's documented in thousands of sources.

Of course the anthrax attacks were not the work of A-Q, of course they were used to stampede passage of post 9/11 "police state" measures.

And it is an established fact that the source was the USAMRIID facility at Ft. Detrick MD.

So the g'ment taking precautions against chemical/biological attacks when the Nation is, herself, under attack somehow proves they knew beforehand that there would be anthrax attacks.

Sorry, but that theory doesn't hold water.

[YumYum]

Quite agreed. The g'ment couldn't keep domestic spying secret for even a year, even within the small confines of the Nation's most top secret organization, yet we are expected to believe that they could conduct an "attack" on the WTC and pull it off without mountains of evidence to prove that they did.

Do you think that our government or the Israeli government had prior knowledge of the 9-11 attack?

[AxisMundi]

There are mountains of evidence.

Some just refuse to look at it.

No, there isn't mountains of evidence.

Doctored photos, outrageous claims, and outright lies are not evidence in the least.

[AxisMundi]

Do you think that our government or the Israeli government had prior knowledge of the 9-11 attack?

I have no idea. And to be frank, it is moot as far as some conspiracy fantasy is concerned.

[YumYum]

I have no idea. And to be frank, it is moot as far as some conspiracy fantasy is concerned.

This is entertaining. You're on a roll! We haven't had this much excitement in quite a while! :)

[Peace&Freedom]

No, there isn't mountains of evidence.

Doctored photos, outrageous claims, and outright lies are not evidence in the least.

Nor are CLAIMS that there are only doctored photos, outrageous claims, and outright lies evidence in the least. Your approach to dealing with the other side's evidence is to characterize all of it as fraudulent, without evidence. That is not a rebuttal, that is evasion and denial.

[Anti Federalist]

So the g'ment taking precautions against chemical/biological attacks when the Nation is, herself, under attack somehow proves they knew beforehand that there would be anthrax attacks.

Sorry, but that theory doesn't hold water.

No, what you said does not hold water:


no g'ment employees where given cipro just before the attacks

Now, you can argue about the reasons for them taking Cipro before the attacks all you want, but what you cannot justify is that they were not taking Cipro.

They were, weeks ahead of an anthrax attack carried out with germ cells that came from a US government/military lab.

These are the facts.

[teacherone]

http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/454/dbe/454dbe4b-6a87-4e0d-8c0d-5ff7b6ca9569

please?

[Travlyr]

How do you come up with the BBC claiming the building collapsed 20 minutes before it did?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7SwOT29gbc

Building 7 is clearly still standing in the background.
http://wtc7.net/bbc.html

[Mach]

;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9GaQuY1n0M

[jmdrake]

1. Yes, jet fuel can indeed impact the structural strength of steel. Steel melts at 1315F to 15,00f degrees (depending on the alloy mix), but looses structural stability at half that temperature, well within the range of jet fuel fires.

You obviously didn't actually watch the first video I posted. Either that or you didn't understand the point. Some of the steel beams found in the rubble looked like swiss cheese. Jet fuel can't do that. No way, no how.



2. The steel beams where cut by rescue workers with torches, see photographs in the link I provided earlier.

You obviously didn't watch and/or didn't understand the point of the second video I posted. Or you're just being intellectually dishonest. (I'm thinking the latter). Of course rescue workers had to cut the beams to get them small enough to take off. If a tree is cut down you still have to cut it up. If the buildings were imploded you'd still have to cut them up. No one is suggesting that no steel beams were cut after the building might have imploded. That's a complete non sequitur. Of course this shows how must "debunking" isn't actually honest debunking. It's just grasping at straws to find something to be able to say.

[jmdrake]

How do you come up with the BBC claiming the building collapsed 20 minutes before it did?

The BBC itself admitted that it reported that WTC 7 fell before it actually fell. In February 2007 they said that this was just a "cock up" and that nobody told gave them a "script".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2007/02/part_of_the_conspiracy.html

Then in 2010 they admitted that they got the information that WTC 7 had fallen from Reuters.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/mike_rudin/

So Reuters had a prepared story about how WTC 7 had fallen before it fell and it mistakenly sent it out to other news agencies again before WTC 7 fell. And why would it do this?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=operation+mockingbird

[agitator]

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Military-Germs-US-Cities.htm


SAN FRANCISCO -- Fifty-one years ago, Edward J. Nevin checked into a San Francisco hospital, complaining of chills, fever and general malaise. Three weeks later, the 75-year-old retired pipe fitter was dead, the victim of what doctors said was an infection of the bacterium Serratia marcescens.

Decades later, Mr. Nevin's family learned what they believe was the cause of the infection, linked at the time to the hospitalizations of 10 other patients. In Senate subcommittee hearings in 1977, the U.S. Army revealed that weeks before Mr. Nevin sickened and died, the Army had staged a mock biological attack on San Francisco, secretly spraying the city with Serratia and other agents thought to be harmless.

The goal: to see what might happen in a real germ-warfare attack. The experiment, which involved blasting a bacterial fog over the entire 49-square-mile city from a Navy vessel offshore, was recorded with clinical nonchalance: "It was noted that a successful BW [biological warfare] attack on this area can be launched from the sea, and that effective dosages can be produced over relatively large areas," the Army wrote in its 1951 classified report on the experiment.


http://www.kpfa.org/archive/id/65894


Guns and Butter - "Targeted Individuals"

With Dr. Terry Robertson and Dr. John Hall. Dr. Robertson discusses the demographics of "who is targeted" with directed energy weapons. Dr. Hall talks about his personal experiences in San Antonio, Texas; the targeting of his close friend; criminal enterprises that are involved in targeting individuals; long-term experiments on non-consenting populations.

[AxisMundi]

Nor are CLAIMS that there are only doctored photos, outrageous claims, and outright lies evidence in the least. Your approach to dealing with the other side's evidence is to characterize all of it as fraudulent, without evidence. That is not a rebuttal, that is evasion and denial.

What has been offered to date as evidence? Off the top of my head...

A photo of a commercial jet wheel inside the Pentagon, claiming it was a rocket engine.
A photo showing men gathered around what appears to be a pool of molten steel, which in reality are rescue workers gathered around a high-power lamp doctored to make it look like molten steel.
Photos of torch cut beams which people claim is evidence of thermite charges and controlled demolition, ignoring the clean appearance of said cuts, I.E. not covered in dust and debris and despite photographs of workers cutting the SAME beam. This is the evidence offered of "thermite found in the wreckage".
Puffs of dust seen preceding the collapsing floor. This is air forced out violently as each floor collapsed onto the one below.

Got more, bring 'em to the table.

[AxisMundi]

The BBC itself admitted that it reported that WTC 7 fell before it actually fell. In February 2007 they said that this was just a "cock up" and that nobody told gave them a "script".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2007/02/part_of_the_conspiracy.html

Then in 2010 they admitted that they got the information that WTC 7 had fallen from Reuters.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/mike_rudin/

So Reuters had a prepared story about how WTC 7 had fallen before it fell and it mistakenly sent it out to other news agencies again before WTC 7 fell. And why would it do this?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=operation+mockingbird

As usual invented links between unrelated events. Thanks.

[AxisMundi]

No, what you said does not hold water:



Now, you can argue about the reasons for them taking Cipro before the attacks all you want, but what you cannot justify is that they were not taking Cipro.

They were, weeks ahead of an anthrax attack carried out with germ cells that came from a US government/military lab.

These are the facts.

Facts themselves cannot be manipulated. How they are applied, however, can be as you illustrate.

[AxisMundi]

You obviously didn't actually watch the first video I posted. Either that or you didn't understand the point. Some of the steel beams found in the rubble looked like swiss cheese. Jet fuel can't do that. No way, no how.

There is no evidence of where this steel came from, there is no proof that this is a structural steel member and not a piece of waste steel that's been sitting on the roof for decades. Considering the colume of steel in WTC7, the fact that only one small piece was found tells volumes.


You obviously didn't watch and/or didn't understand the point of the second video I posted. Or you're just being intellectually dishonest. (I'm thinking the latter). Of course rescue workers had to cut the beams to get them small enough to take off. If a tree is cut down you still have to cut it up. If the buildings were imploded you'd still have to cut them up. No one is suggesting that no steel beams were cut after the building might have imploded. That's a complete non sequitur. Of course this shows how must "debunking" isn't actually honest debunking. It's just grasping at straws to find something to be able to say.

9/11 conspiracies are nothing BUT straws.

[Anti Federalist]

Facts themselves cannot be manipulated. How they are applied, however, can be as you illustrate.

Right, so don't contribute to the FUD and obfuscation, when all we are seeking is clarity and truth in this matter.

Don't go around saying that government officials, including the president, were not taking the antibiotic Cipro, when they were, weeks before any anthrax was mailed out.

[Chieppa1]

Man, for not believing in conspiracy theories, Axis. You sure know a lot. Its like you dedicated yourself to being an anti-conspiracy theorist. Any reason? Are you like Bill Maher? You know, I dislike religion like he does, but I don't go around poking people just to be an asshole.

Oh and this line was priceless to me: "She was also unable to convince the 9/11 commission". Because they had no agenda.

Is Wikileaks a theory too? I mean, the evidence is just a "fabrication". Since if it was brought in front of a newly formed government run "Wiki Commission", I'm sure they wouldn't be convinced it proves anyone lied to the American people either.

Senior Member: October 2010. How does that work?

[agitator]

Man, for not believing in conspiracy theories, Axis. You sure know a lot. Its like you dedicated yourself to being an anti-conspiracy theorist. Any reason?

It's called Coincidence Theorist.

[Travlyr]

Offer your proof.
Each and every thing offered to support demolishion is easily debunked.

Are you going to debunk this?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7SwOT29gbc

Building 7 is clearly still standing in the background.
http://wtc7.net/bbc.html

[hazek]

Are you going to debunk this?

I'd really love to see him try. :rolleyes:

[cswake]

Are you going to debunk this?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7SwOT29gbc

Building 7 is clearly still standing in the background.
http://wtc7.net/bbc.htmlReuters mistakenly sent out a newswire saying that Building 7 collapsed and she was the only reporter that didn't verify it?

[Chieppa1]

It's called Coincidence Theorist.

My post was oozing with sarcasm.

[Travlyr]

Reuters mistakenly sent out a newswire saying that Building 7 collapsed and she was the only reporter that didn't verify it?
Crazy stuff. This proves to me that a lot of people know more than what they are telling. It's time for a common law grand jury (http://www.1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/grandjuryrules.htm) investigation, imo.

[hazek]

Reuters mistakenly sent out a newswire saying that Building 7 collapsed and she was the only reporter that didn't verify it?

OK and how would Reuters even come to the idea that another building had collapsed? Can you explain that? Cause last I checked buildings don't just collapse willy nilly even with fires.

[cswake]

I can't since I'm not part of a news organization; however, it doesn't automatically mean that the conclusion should thus be that a CIA operative working within Reuters was planting information.

[hazek]

You are right, it shouldn't. But you also can't rule it out which only means that more questions needed to be asked. But with people like you, telling us that we're imagining things, that will never happen. So thanks!

[cswake]

Don't have a collectivist mindset, I have no problem with another, more open and thorough investigation - I just think it will unveil more bureaucratic ineptness and failures. (Not necessarily a bad thing)

[hazek]

Ok, so a mature response to conspiracy theories on your part should be "Ok you might have something there, I don't necessarily believe it all, but there definitively are some questions that need to be asked and answered."

Ridicule doesn't help anybody.

[cswake]

Couldn't agree more and that's why I never ridiculed the truthers. :) Asking questions is a good thing as long as you don't jump to conclusions.

[jmdrake]

As usual invented links between unrelated events. Thanks.

Invented links? Dude your cognitive dissonance will cause you brain damage at some point. The links came straight from the BBC website. Invented my foot! And unrelated events? You were the one asking for proof that the BBC announced that the towers fell before they fell. I gave it to you. The BBC admitted it themselves. And they admitted they were fed the information from Reuters after first denying that they were fed any "script". I'm convinced that some people would still be in denial about 9/11 even if Cheney did a press conference and said "I did it".

[Anti Federalist]

Invented links? Dude your cognitive dissonance will cause you brain damage at some point. The links came straight from the BBC website. Invented my foot! And unrelated events? You were the one asking for proof that the BBC announced that the towers fell before they fell. I gave it to you. The BBC admitted it themselves. And they admitted they were fed the information from Reuters after first denying that they were fed any "script". I'm convinced that some people would still be in denial about 9/11 even if Cheney did a press conference and said "I did it".

JM, he is not suffering from "cognitive dissonance".

CD is that state of mind that is best described as being agitated, nervous, panicked and sweaty, in a state of distress because you are being forced to hold two contradictory views, simultaneously, in your conscious and subconscious.

No, Axis has progressed well past that point, he now loves Big Brother, that mental distress is gone, blessed doublethink has now overcome CD, and if the regime says 2 plus 2 equals 5, well, by god, so it does.

Cognitive dissonance is the last indicator of a free mind. Once that's gone, then that person is gone as well.

[agar]

9/11 official story is so ridiculous that it wouldnt even make for plausible fiction. So weird how so many people even after 10 years still buy this nonsense.

[RedBloodConservative]

I first will say that I served in the Military, from 2001-2005, right after 9/11...

whats funny is this guy trying to debunk the truth, I believe his name is Axis? Axis you need to find some new websites to get your info from. You trying to disprove the Killtown site was really funny. Heck I have some of the sites I bet you used on my computer bookmarks, and they themselves are BS sites. Almost asll the info he quoted is exactly what the goverment told people. Maybe he should find something that wasnt posted by someone who works for the government.

I grew up in a family of firefighters. I have family that worked for Chicago,Indianapolis, Baltimore,Dallas, and Evansville fire departments. When a firefighter gets to the "crash site" on tower 1 and says to get 2 inch attack lines up there, sorry but that isnt hot enough to bring down the tower. NYFD are the top of the top, I believe that if they say they heard and saw demolition charges going off, then I believe them over anything our government said.

There are many videos of explosions going off on the lower parts of the towers, but of course if they arent MSNBC, OR CBS then they were suppsadly doctored.

Explosions going off in towers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IqSsTmWv7k
Bombs Planted in Buildings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-nT-luFIw

of course since these links are youtuber truthers they will be called fake or doctored.

I am so happy that Jesse Ventura is on my side now. He knows that there is the real truth and the government BS!

I belive the Government was behind 9/11......Plain and simple, there is to much proof out there.

as for some of the others:

JFK: It wasnt a lone man shooter, sry.... I remember Jesse Ventura said that there was a missed shot, which hit a curb, and if you trace it back to where LHO supposadly fired from, he would have missed by 33 feet... sry but no Former marine, missed that much, and then proceeds to hit JFK where he did. lso remember that JFK was shot shortly after his speech saying there were elite people behind the scenes..

Aliens: Right now I would say I do not know, however what I do believe about Area 51 is that they test some highly top secret stuff there.

is there any forums out there where we can talk about this stuff and not be pissed on?


BTW Axis, do some true independant research, quit copy and pasting BS Pro government websites (that in reality dont debunk shit bro).....

[PatriotOne]

I first will say that I served in the Military, from 2001-2005, right after 9/11...

whats funny is this guy trying to debunk the truth, I believe his name is Axis? Axis you need to find some new websites to get your info from. You trying to disprove the Killtown site was really funny. Heck I have some of the sites I bet you used on my computer bookmarks, and they themselves are BS sites. Almost asll the info he quoted is exactly what the goverment told people. Maybe he should find something that wasnt posted by someone who works for the government.

I grew up in a family of firefighters. I have family that worked for Chicago,Indianapolis, Baltimore,Dallas, and Evansville fire departments. When a firefighter gets to the "crash site" on tower 1 and says to get 2 inch attack lines up there, sorry but that isnt hot enough to bring down the tower. NYFD are the top of the top, I believe that if they say they heard and saw demolition charges going off, then I believe them over anything our government said.

There are many videos of explosions going off on the lower parts of the towers, but of course if they arent MSNBC, OR CBS then they were suppsadly doctored.

Explosions going off in towers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IqSsTmWv7k
Bombs Planted in Buildings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-nT-luFIw

of course since these links are youtuber truthers they will be called fake or doctored.

I am so happy that Jesse Ventura is on my side now. He knows that there is the real truth and the government BS!

I belive the Government was behind 9/11......Plain and simple, there is to much proof out there.

as for some of the others:

JFK: It wasnt a lone man shooter, sry.... I remember Jesse Ventura said that there was a missed shot, which hit a curb, and if you trace it back to where LHO supposadly fired from, he would have missed by 33 feet... sry but no Former marine, missed that much, and then proceeds to hit JFK where he did. lso remember that JFK was shot shortly after his speech saying there were elite people behind the scenes..

Aliens: Right now I would say I do not know, however what I do believe about Area 51 is that they test some highly top secret stuff there.

is there any forums out there where we can talk about this stuff and not be pissed on?


BTW Axis, do some true independant research, quit copy and pasting BS Pro government websites (that in reality dont debunk shit bro).....

Do you have any insight as to whether your views are the exception to the rule or do many other ex-mlitary understand that 9/11 was a false flag op at this point?

[AxisMundi]

Right, so don't contribute to the FUD and obfuscation, when all we are seeking is clarity and truth in this matter.

Don't go around saying that government officials, including the president, were not taking the antibiotic Cipro, when they were, weeks before any anthrax was mailed out.

Never fails to amaze me when people who complain about g'ment misinformation indulge themselves so freely in the same practice.

Truth in this matter does not include controlled demolishion or some secret g'ment plot to make 9/11 happen.

Covering up ineptitude? Yes, I can agree with a g'ment conspiracy in that area, however.

And I have already given my opinions on Cipro.

[Anti Federalist]

Never fails to amaze me when people who complain about g'ment misinformation indulge themselves so freely in the same practice.

Truth in this matter does not include controlled demolishion or some secret g'ment plot to make 9/11 happen.

So says you.

You also said that no government employees or "officials" were taking Cipro prior to the anthrax attacks.

And you were wrong.


Covering up ineptitude? Yes, I can agree with a g'ment conspiracy in that area, however.

Which is just as bad as letting it happen or making it happen on purpose.

Therefore, you should be on the same bandwagon as us LIHOP and MIHOP folks, demanding truth and accountability.

[Anti Federalist]

Bump just to rate this thread up

[AxisMundi]

Man, for not believing in conspiracy theories, Axis. You sure know a lot. Its like you dedicated yourself to being an anti-conspiracy theorist. Any reason? Are you like Bill Maher? You know, I dislike religion like he does, but I don't go around poking people just to be an asshole.

Oh and this line was priceless to me: "She was also unable to convince the 9/11 commission". Because they had no agenda.

Is Wikileaks a theory too? I mean, the evidence is just a "fabrication". Since if it was brought in front of a newly formed government run "Wiki Commission", I'm sure they wouldn't be convinced it proves anyone lied to the American people either.

Senior Member: October 2010. How does that work?

1. I despise misinformation. The entire 9/11 "Truthie" movement is nothing BUT misinformation. One cannot fight against misinformation without arming themselves with knowledge. I despise misinformation whether it is generated by my Elected Employees, the media, people so desperate to attack the g'ment that they make shit up, or people looking to make a quick buck off of the highly gullible.

2. Wikileaks must be viewed as a hostile source, and any and all information leaked examined and researched. To take Wikileaks at face value is no better than taking the g'ment at face value.

[AxisMundi]

So says you.

You also said that no government employees or "officials" were taking Cipro prior to the anthrax attacks.

And you were wrong.

Which is just as bad as letting it happen or making it happen on purpose.

Therefore, you should be on the same bandwagon as us LIHOP and MIHOP folks, demanding truth and accountability.

Firstly, let me clarify. I was laboring under the misconception that you were arguing that people were taking Cipro prior to 9/11. I believe I have already stood corrected on this point, and if not, do so now.

Secondly, there is no valid evidence suggesting that our Elected Employees "let it happen", let alone "making it happen".

[AxisMundi]

I'd really love to see him try. :rolleyes:

There is nothing to debunk, actually.

Your side is attempting, in this piece of unrelated misdirection, to claim the BBC, a media organization, had prior access to information that no one else did, i.e. some controlled demolition of B7, when almost no one else in the world did.

[AxisMundi]

JM, he is not suffering from "cognitive dissonance".

CD is that state of mind that is best described as being agitated, nervous, panicked and sweaty, in a state of distress because you are being forced to hold two contradictory views, simultaneously, in your conscious and subconscious.

No, Axis has progressed well past that point, he now loves Big Brother, that mental distress is gone, blessed doublethink has now overcome CD, and if the regime says 2 plus 2 equals 5, well, by god, so it does.

Cognitive dissonance is the last indicator of a free mind. Once that's gone, then that person is gone as well.

Thank you for illustrating the level of intellectual dishonesty one must indulge themselves in to believe any of this controlled demolition nonsense.

[pcosmar]

AxisMundi

Ha Ha.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3j1aAYfuUE4/Sb1rM2WjJaI/AAAAAAAAE_E/uRvlyn3FqCc/s400/funny-pictures-beaver-cant-hear-you.jpg


You funny.

[Chieppa1]

Wikileaks must be viewed as a hostile source, and any and all information leaked examined and researched. To take Wikileaks at face value is no better than taking the g'ment at face value.


No shit. So why do you believe the "g'ment" story at face value? Since all your responses I can hear on any news outlet or during the 08' election. What examination and research have you done?

[Chieppa1]

Thank you for illustrating the level of intellectual dishonesty one must indulge themselves in to believe any of this controlled demolition nonsense.

Thanks for the vague comment that doesn't explain why that is intellectual dishonesty. You said it yourself, "evidence that didn't convince the 9/11 Commission." Seems to me like you take their opinion on face value. 2 plus 2 equals 5.

[AxisMundi]

AxisMundi

Ha Ha.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3j1aAYfuUE4/Sb1rM2WjJaI/AAAAAAAAE_E/uRvlyn3FqCc/s400/funny-pictures-beaver-cant-hear-you.jpg


You funny.

I am more than willing to listen to rational, reasonable arguments when they are presented.

Unfortunately for your camp, none have been offered to date.

[AxisMundi]

No shit. So why do you believe the "g'ment" story at face value? Since all your responses I can hear on any news outlet or during the 08' election. What examination and research have you done?

Please post any quotes from myself stating that I support the government's position in this matter.

What research? Each and every claim made that comes to my attention. Many times these are easily debunked as pure hysteria, other times it takes a little research.

The "molten steel" is an example of the latter.

[pcosmar]

I am more than willing to listen to rational, reasonable arguments when they are presented.

Unfortunately for your camp, none have been offered to date.

No you are not.
You are a fuckin' lier.

There has been much evidence, video, witness testimony, and documented research, but you ignore it all and ridicule any that presents them.

You are a troll.

AxisMundi can only hope to improve
Well,,there is always hope.

[VegasPatriot]

Please post any quotes from myself stating that I support the government's position in this matter.

Well then, why don't you clear up any misunderstandings and answer the following with a simple yes or no... Do you believe the "official" government position? If your answer is no... then why are you not calling for a new investigation?

[jmdrake]

Thank you for illustrating the level of intellectual dishonesty one must indulge themselves in to believe any of this controlled demolition nonsense.

Intellectual dishonesty is you not being able to admit that the BBC reported WTC 7 falling before it fell. You could have tried to explain your way around it. Maybe said "it was a lucky guess by Reuters" or some crap. Instead you just lied.

[RedBloodConservative]

Do you have any insight as to whether your views are the exception to the rule or do many other ex-mlitary understand that 9/11 was a false flag op at this point?

No I am not the exception... There are many former military that questioned it. Also alot of firefighters are questioning it.

I will post some links in a bit.:)

[crazyfacedjenkins]

I read Prison Planet and find myself saying "You know, Alex Jones has a point there."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8mLL9HZmyk

[PatriotOne]

No I am not the exception... There are many former military that questioned it. Also alot of firefighters are questioning it.

I will post some links in a bit.:)

Fantastic. You made my night and I look forward to your links.

[AxisMundi]

Intellectual dishonesty is you not being able to admit that the BBC reported WTC 7 falling before it fell. You could have tried to explain your way around it. Maybe said "it was a lucky guess by Reuters" or some crap. Instead you just lied.

I never stated they did not, feel free to provide a quote showing I did.

To clarify, what I stated was that the idea that the BBC knew of some plot to demolish B7 is simply laughable.

There was a lot going on at the time, mistakes in reporting happened.

This example just doesn't rise to the challenge of offering proof, especially when there isn;t a shred of proof to show that B7 was purposely demolished.

[agar]

I never stated they did not, feel free to provide a quote showing I did.

To clarify, what I stated was that the idea that the BBC knew of some plot to demolish B7 is simply laughable.

There was a lot going on at the time, mistakes in reporting happened.

This example just doesn't rise to the challenge of offering proof, especially when there isn;t a shred of proof to show that B7 was purposely demolished.

have a look at www.ae911truth.org

1400 verified Architects and Engineers on board the 911 truth bandwagon.

But my hunch is that you're a troll.

[AxisMundi]

have a look at www.ae911truth.org

1400 verified Architects and Engineers on board the 911 truth bandwagon.

But my hunch is that you're a troll.

Already seen it.

A degree does not eliminate gullability.

[YumYum]

Is there a "911 For Dummies" web site?

[pcosmar]

Is there a "911 For Dummies" web site?

I think the government has several.
But there are many sites for thinking people.
;)

[AxisMundi]

Is there a "911 For Dummies" web site?

"9/11 Truth" IS for dummies!

;)

(sorry, couldn't resist)

[crazyfacedjenkins]

Conspiracy guys have been right about everything!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYNsES00MFY